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Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

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Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#381

Post by hughesjj »

gleenn wrote: post #285
jandrese wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dear OS writers: Internet access is not always guaranteed or reliable. Please do not assume that the cloud is a viable solution for every user. I ran into this on my phone awhile back. I knew I would be out of service for some time but had some PDFs I needed to reference. So I downloaded them to "files". Que surprise when I later go to look up a value and there's a little cloud with a down arrow button next to the PD…

This is the number one thing that annoys me about so many apps, especially apps with clear use-cases for offline use like listening to music, reading, and learning apps. I don't understand how so many app writers have never gone for a run through a canyon or flown on an airplane. I specifically pay money to SoundCloud for instance just for the "feature" to cache the music locally and somehow it regularly gets stuck c…

> learning apps.

So fun to spring for the paid duolingo only to realize you can only download the next lesson up, not like the entire course.

The lessons are like 5m long wtf am I supposed to do with that? I just want to spend my idle time on the plane or camping disconnected from distractions so I can learn, but app developers have made that effectively impossible

And this is why I don't pay for, or even use duolingo even though I'm actively learning a language

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#382

Post by nativeit »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #27
organsnyder wrote: post #16

I still don't understand how this got this far. Enabling this in any corporate setting would be a compliance nightmare.

Corporate is never on the bleeding edge of Windows feature updates. They bring security updates first, but feature updates are at least one generation behind, maybe more waiting for Microsoft to fix bugs and doing their own regression testing, plus they get to choose wich features employees receive or are enabled by default via group policy. In other worlds, recall was never making it into any corporation anyway.

This is generally true, but Windows is the standard for far more SMBs than larger enterprise customers, and in that context it’s not nearly so straightforward. I have a client, a health insurance benefits broker for other local businesses. They do very well for themselves, but it’s just 2-3 full-time people, so there’s never been much cause for a full-on domain with GPO policies to maintain a strict, stable state across their equipment. Traditionally, off-the-shelf systems with SMB-targeted software had been more than sufficient.

When Microsoft decided to push a feature upgrade last year that automatically enabled OneDrive backups for their home directories, it technically violated HIPAA by moving electronic patient health information contained within their scanned files folder onto OneDrive servers without any prior consent or authorization. They literally called me when they were unable to find their files, Microsoft had (laughably, if it weren’t so serious) placed a text file on the desktop titled “Where Did My Files Go.txt”, and then directed them to the OneDrive folders where it had moved their desktops, documents, and pictures without their knowledge or approval.

I have since moved them to Microsoft 365 accounts where I can apply GPO, but my clients were understandably unhappy about having a new annual subscription that didn’t add any tangible benefit, rather they’re now on the hook for a couple hundred bucks a year for what’s essentially a shake down. Pay for the new service that adds nothing meaningful to their experience, or else face the consequences of Microsoft ruining your business on a whim.

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#383

Post by wvenable »

haswell wrote: post #376
wvenable wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all moot anyway because Microsoft has already said they are now going to encrypt everything behind Windows Hello making it as secure as my password manager.

Microsoft has made misleading statements regarding encryption [0] and it doesn’t help much. Encryption at rest doesn’t much matter if the user being logged in is enough for the data to be decrypted. This is the context malware runs in. https://doublepulsar.com/recall-stealing-everything-youve-ev...

That's old information. This is how Microsoft is intending to change Recall based on these criticisms:

Microsoft will also require Windows Hello to enable Recall, so you’ll either authenticate with your face, fingerprint, or using a PIN. “In addition, proof of presence is also required to view your timeline and search in Recall,” says Davuluri, so someone won’t be able to start searching through your timeline without authenticating first.

This authentication will also apply to the data protection around the snapshots that Recall creates. “We are adding additional layers of data protection including ‘just in time’ decryption protected by Windows Hello Enhanced Sign-in Security (ESS) so Recall snapshots will only be decrypted and accessible when the user authenticates,” explains Davuluri. “In addition, we encrypted the search index database.”

https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/7/24173499/microsoft-windows...

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#384

Post by layer8 »

ydnaclementine wrote: post #76
herf wrote: post #58

It's interesting to compare this to the Chrome/Safari/Edge browsing history, which is stored in an unencrypted SQLite database, and tracks what you do for the last 90 days. It's just a bit less visual, Incognito/Private modes work, and some users clear it more often. But a whole lot of the surveillance attacks people imagine about Recall apply just the same to the browser. I think it's the "little brother" casual att…

Does Recall run entirely locally? I don't think your browser history gets sent out

The vulnerability is that the first thing any malware that happens to run on the PC will do is upload the Recall database, giving the attacker your entire usage history since installation (and of any other user account on the same PC). This can then be analyzed for worthwhile targets for scams and blackmailing.

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#385

Post by robocat »

atribecalledqst wrote: post #260

Maybe a bit off-topic, but I sure wish they'd do this for OneDrive! I installed Windows for personal use for the first time recently (although I use it exclusively at work) and it drove me ABSOLUTELY BONKERS that my home drive was mapping to C:\Users\atribecalledqst\OneDrive. What I hated the most was that the File Explorer just calls the folders in there e.g. "Documents" and "Pictures" without showing the full path.…

The gateway to a monthly consumer subscription. Therefore important to Microsoft.

Apple also uses dark patterns to try and get a monthly income from customers. Apple has upsells and nag nag nag advertisements for iCloud.

The irony with Microsoft is that I would consider paying a monthly fee for a modern version of Windows 2000 without extra features. No adverts, no telemetry, no OneDrive, no cloud signin, no store, no games installed as part of the OS, no MS junkware, no bullshit. Aside: why is there no "Windows for developers" - even Balmer knew "developers developers developers" was worthwhile but Microsoft has deleted that from its DNA: even though Apple's competition is a mixed bag.

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#386

Post by nativeit »

rchaud wrote: post #145
organsnyder wrote: post #16

I still don't understand how this got this far. Enabling this in any corporate setting would be a compliance nightmare.

Corporate clients get whatever they want. I am certain that their Windows 10 support won't be pulled in Oct 2025 as MS has threatened for everyone else. And when they migrate to Win11, it will almost certainly be a separate OS image free of the garbage bloatware and ads that the consumer devices are plagued with.

Am I just imagining their saying that Windows 10 would be the last Windows? I had thought they would be moving to an Apple-esque model where OS updates would just become iterative and avoid the old EOL/upgrade cycle. It’s how I justified all of their tangential money-grabs on other fronts.

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#387

Post by ijidak »

jl6 wrote: post #323
jandrese wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dear OS writers: Internet access is not always guaranteed or reliable. Please do not assume that the cloud is a viable solution for every user. I ran into this on my phone awhile back. I knew I would be out of service for some time but had some PDFs I needed to reference. So I downloaded them to "files". Que surprise when I later go to look up a value and there's a little cloud with a down arrow button next to the PD…

If this is the place to complain about broken patterns in Microsoft software, I wonder if anyone can fix this: 1. Create new office document (Word/PowerPoint/etc) and hit save. 2. No, the default location in OneDrive isn’t right so you click the down arrow to see more. 3. No, none of the other recent locations in the (short) list are right either, so you click “More locations” 4. Now you have to click Browse to see a…

1,000% agree.

Saving files in Office has turned into a nightmare.

I don't understand what Microsoft is thinking with this behavior.

I'm fine with that being the default flow. But it can't even be turned off.

I imagine this design is better for non power users.

They no longer forget where they saved their files.

But for power users, this is terrible.

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#388

Post by dimensi0nal »

immibis wrote: post #366
isoprophlex wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang around kids and even though they can be pretty good at using a computer, they have no clue how the thing actually works. They don't know what a file is anymore. Everything is a shiny little icon in a shiny little magic folder. Not trying to make this sound like a value judgment, more an observation. But it makes you wonder, what do we lose by excessive abstraction.

This isn't excessive abstraction - this is just different abstraction. Files and folders are a human invention, and there's no law of nature forcing us to continue using them. It's like complaining about people forgetting how to use MS-DOS commands, when Windows (until PowerShell) was built on GUIs through and through and MS-DOS commands were only still there for compatibility. You don't have to learn MS-DOS command…

storing things "in apps" still makes a file on a filesystem, but it's less reliable and the user doesn't know where it is

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#389

Post by twobitshifter »

SavageBeast wrote: post #126

In all the MS Recall drama, I've yet to hear or read one single person utter something to the effect of "Wow - great!!! - I've been waiting for something like this for years! This will solve at least one of the major issues I face regularly!". In fact, it seems to me the only people that really want this feature are the ones trying to push it down everyones collective throat. Why is MS pushing something so hard when…

Imagine you could use Recall to train a model to do all the interactions that knowledge workers do on their computers using the exact same software, do you think there would be value in that?

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#390

Post by skywhopper »

atribecalledqst wrote: post #260

Maybe a bit off-topic, but I sure wish they'd do this for OneDrive! I installed Windows for personal use for the first time recently (although I use it exclusively at work) and it drove me ABSOLUTELY BONKERS that my home drive was mapping to C:\Users\atribecalledqst\OneDrive. What I hated the most was that the File Explorer just calls the folders in there e.g. "Documents" and "Pictures" without showing the full path.…

Add to these complaints that many folders are actually logical overlapping folders that pull from multiple places. I haven’t been able to bring myself to use Windows for years now, and I was a Windows sysadmin for over a decade! It’s basically impossible for someone like me who needs to feel in control of their computing environment to ever feel comfortable with.
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