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Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

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Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#381

Post by ClumsyPilot »

tristor wrote: post #353
Cookingboy wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your entire argument is based off the propagandized idea that "China is our mortal enemy". Should we cut off all tourism/business travel between China and the Wests? Cease all commercial activities? Declare war? Wait we should ask China to close the 9000 Starbucks in their country first. Your opinion, while fairly popular amongst propagandized Americans, is not supported by hard facts.. And your argument of "all Chin…

I don't think China is our mortal enemy or that we should formally declare war. Nowhere in my comments do I make any of the spurious statements you're trying to attribute to me. However, it is clear that China /is/ our enemy, "mortal" though they may not be (currently). China exists for China, and I personally hold no animus towards China for that, but I am also not so much of a fool that I would willingly employ and…

> it is clear that China /is/ our enemy. I personally hold no animus towards China...inform my enemy...recognize someone is your enemy...

Firstly, if you are so obsessed with finding enemies everywhere, then you do hold animus.

Second, you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. The US missed out on 5G technology because a foreign researcher wasn't granted a green card and sold his research to Chinese companies instead. Way to go, undermining the very foundation of your success.

I think you need to realise that, outside of the west, for example in India, US is not trusted a whole lot more than China is. The allegations of threat to national security against Huawei seem suspiciously well timed, they appeared just as Huawei came out with 5G tech. To many nations this looks like economic warfare, and resorting to sanctions simply to secure markets.

You need to accept the fact that China is here to stay, and third nations are going to enjoy playing China and US off against each other, and see who can offer them better deal.

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#383

Post by alsetmusic »

krisoft wrote: post #344
billy99k wrote: post #128

This doesn't surprise me. I knew someone that intentionally graduated with a specific major, so they could get a job in that industry and send trade secrets/IP back to China. The purpose was to create a competing company. It didn't work out for them that well. They couldn't last more than 6 months at any one company and I think eventually gave up and went back home.

> It didn't work out for them that well. They couldn't last more than 6 months at any one company I don’t understand what you are saying here. How many months does one need to stay to hover up the trade secrets / IP? In software engineering you get access to the repos on day one, but even in other industries I guess what you don’t have access to after 6 months you won’t have access to realistically ever. > eventually…

I have a strong distrust for authority, but even I would report espionage and IP theft of this sort. Downloading a movie doesn't bother me. Running a site for others to download movies doesn't bother me. But being a snake to go defraud a company to steal the hard work of others so your own illicit company can turn a profit off said labor by others irks me. Do your own R&D.

Did you ever consider doing raising a red flag? If so, why did or didn't you?

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#384

Post by tppiotrowski »

feverzsj wrote: post #27

So he was already CEO/CTO of 2 China companies while still working in google. And these information are publicly available right after he registering them. Seems a management disaster of google.

Are you prohibited from owning a company or acting as the CEO of a company while employed by Google?

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#385

Post by _cs2017_ »

hnburnsy wrote: post #373

Here is the indictment since AP News can't be bothered to link to it... https://www.justice.gov/opa/media/1341356/dl?inline

Interesting.

The guy copied source code via copy paste... And it seems, also regular Google documents.

He was already caught uploading secret stuff, quit Google and bought a ticket to go to China, and was arrested only because he delayed the trip by a few weeks which was enough time for Google to discover more violations and contact the FBI.

Google didn't contact the FBI until they learned of older violations. Which begs the question: what triggered that: the fact that the earlier documents were more secret, more numerous, or the fact that the guy lied about destroying all previously downloaded data?

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#386

Post by ClumsyPilot »

tristor wrote: post #320
hughesjj wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being born someone does not force you to have an undying allegiance to that place, what are you on about?

I don't think your response is in good faith, since you are responding to a comment where I explicitly say that I have made no reference to where someone is born, only to their allegiance. Do you not understand what the term "national" means? A significant number of US nationals were not born here, being born here is not a prerequisite to be a national. While the same is largely not true for China, there are many peo…

> I don't think your response is in good faith

I don't think yours's is, you pretend to draw a difference where no practical distinction exists.

For 95% of people worldwide, birthplace IS nationality - you get 1 by birth, and only have 1. You can't renounce it, that would make you illegal alien.

If you put up a corporate email "specifically Chinese citizens will get no promotions this year" you will have immediate lawsuits on your hands, it is discriminatory.

Instead you should own up to to the fact that your position is illiberal, and provide serious evidence that the threat is so great, that liberal principles must be abandoned. Of course that is much tougher and less palatable argument to make.

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#387

Post by agitator »

vasco wrote: post #226
yellow_lead wrote: post #174

I find it funny how Google is presenting this. These statements don't really mesh well. > “We have strict safeguards to prevent the theft of our confidential commercial information and trade secrets,” Google spokesman Jose Castaneda said in a statement. > Ding [..] began uploading hundreds of files into a personal Google Cloud account two years ago. > He resigned from Google last Dec. 26. Three days later, Google off…

> We have strict safeguards to prevent the theft of our confidential commercial information and trade secrets This is just something companies have to say to keep their certifications / audits valid and not get sued by shareholders. In the end any system is leakable if workers really want to.

It's also to be defensible in court. If an opposing party can make the valid argument that "They leave the doors wide open and scatter IP willy-nilly, why wouldn't the IP get leaked?" it makes it harder to argue "Person X stole information when it was obvious that there was an expectation of secrecy"

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#388

Post by ClumsyPilot »

toss1 wrote: post #331
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> employ and inform your enemies This is literally presumption of guilt based on where someone was born. It's the literal definition of prejudice . Very illiberal. Mind you, I am not claiming that you have to be liberal. I just want honesty and consistency. If we all oppose China because they threaten liberty, then we must protect liberty. But if you oppose China just because it's a pissing contest between superpower…

You say "it's not my problem" But you do not live there, you live in the West. Just because the problem is diffuse and distant for you now, does not mean it is not your problem. If we all fail to treat it as the problem, it will become concentrated and local here also. (but sure, right now, it's more convenient to ignore it and party)

It seems awfully convenient that when western corporations were cutting jobs and outsourcing to China we were told to take one for the team capitalism. Same concerns about human rights in China existed.

And now when cheaper Chinese cars/5G/etc threaten profits, we are again told to take one for the team.

I don’t think we get to party, looks a bit like a racket

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#389

Post by ohyes »

outworlder wrote: post #348
krisoft wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It didn't work out for them that well. They couldn't last more than 6 months at any one company I don’t understand what you are saying here. How many months does one need to stay to hover up the trade secrets / IP? In software engineering you get access to the repos on day one, but even in other industries I guess what you don’t have access to after 6 months you won’t have access to realistically ever. > eventually…

> In software engineering you get access to the repos on day one Some repositories needed to do your work, sure. Not necessarily all, and the more interesting work may not be available to just anyone who joins. If it's a company like Google, you may not even end up at the group you interviewed for.

I think the subtext here is that the “spy” in question was not the sharpest tool in the shed.

You need some level of intelligence and knowledge to know what is worth stealing and what to do with it.

Getting a major with the sole purpose of industrial espionage and then telling people about it indicates a lot about the person in question.

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