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U.S. students will take the SAT online

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Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#381

Post by tssva »

octobus2021 wrote: post #364
tssva wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many states no longer require a road test. Instead you take a state approved driving course and the instructor certifies you as meeting the state driving skill requirements. Most states with this system do have an option to still take a state administered driving test instead but most new drivers just take the course. My daughter got her license last August and we paid for the course. They didn’t teach her anything.…

The actual drivers license (the one you can get at 18yo) does require road test in most states. The learner's permit that one can get at 14yo does not require road test, but when you apply for full driver's license at 18yo you will have to take it.

In my state you can’t get a learners permit until 16. You get your drivers license after having your learners for 6 month, completing a classroom and a road driving class. There is no road driving test involved at any point.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#382

Post by tssva »

nocsi wrote: post #344
tssva wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has devolved into a pay for play scheme. I cut a check for a few hundred dollars and you stamp the form saying my kid can drive. You can also take the on the road driving course through your public school at no cost but the wait for that can be extremely long. Most people in my area just pay. A parent does also have to sign the form stating the kid has completed a certain number of hours driving under a certain mi…

You should’ve lead with being from Virginia. That entire state is layers of pay for play schemes. They might’ve removed road tests to “save money” but they’re more than happy to keep up car inspection, emissions, registration and a vehicle value tax.

Our previous governor tried to eliminate state safety inspections but the auto repair shops were able to successfully lobby to block it. Emissions inspections are only required in parts of the state and are a federal requirement which the state can’t avoid. As for vehicle personal property tax that is a local tax and not a state imposed tax.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#383

Post by pc86 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #375
pc86 wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What angle? I'm talking about the definitions of the words. Pandemic: occurring over a wide geographic area (such as multiple countries or continents) and typically affecting a significant proportion of the population; characterized by very widespread growth or extent Endemic: characteristic of or prevalent in a particular field, area, or environment; a disease or outbreak of disease that is typically present in a pa…

Wide geographic area, yes. Significant proportion of the population, yes. Very widespread growth or extent, yes (specifically the extent option). How does it not fit the dictionary definition of pandemic?

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home

17,310 admissions, down 10.3% week over week

2.1% of deaths, down 8.7% WOW

1.5% of ED visits, down 14.6% WOW

7.4% of tests are positive, down 0.9% WOW

None of those numbers indicate growth. None of those numbers indicate a significant proportion of the population. I'll give you geography, but that's also characteristic of an endemic illness - distributed across a large geographic region among a small percentage of the population with relatively little impact.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#385

Post by pfannkuchen »

Tempest1981 wrote: post #355
pfannkuchen wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes the top 6% all got perfect scores. This happened to me on one of the optional SAT math exams, I was ironically confused for a bit.

Test needs to be harder

Maybe, maybe not. For this sort of test there is a huge selection bias since only people planning to work in math or an adjacent field bother to take the test. If you gave the same test to the general population this wouldn’t happen. I’m guessing most selective schools treat it as sort of a pass/fail, and I’m not sure whether that’s problematic for them or not.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#386

Post by frozenport »

bombcar wrote: post #360
frozenport wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point isn’t to stop all cheating, it’s to catch the most blatant idiots cheating. What? No the point is to catch all cheaters.

Catching all cheaters is impossible for any reasonable amount of cash spent (remember all the possibilities people came up for that chess thing?) - which means they want to reduce cheating to a level that is acceptable. Things they're not doing that could allow some high-level cheating: * DNA analysis * Full body searches * Faraday cages

they could record the person taking the test with a video camera at the test site and make it much harder to cheat

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#387

Post by Dylan16807 »

pc86 wrote: post #383
Dylan16807 wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wide geographic area, yes. Significant proportion of the population, yes. Very widespread growth or extent, yes (specifically the extent option). How does it not fit the dictionary definition of pandemic?

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home 17,310 admissions, down 10.3% week over week 2.1% of deaths, down 8.7% WOW 1.5% of ED visits, down 14.6% WOW 7.4% of tests are positive, down 0.9% WOW None of those numbers indicate growth. None of those numbers indicate a significant proportion of the population. I'll give you geography, but that's also characteristic of an endemic illness - distributed acro…

Notice how I didn't say growth, since it bounces up and down. And that looks like a significant proportion to me.

If your argument is that these numbers are not enough for "very widespread extent", then are you saying it was never a pandemic to begin with?

And you already said it was endemic. Are you arguing that a pandemic needs bigger numbers than that?

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#388

Post by gxs »

csa wrote: post #330
gxs wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a nice ideal to strive for, but until everyone goes through the same education system there will always be a need for some form of...standard testing across the board. I think the closest we’d be able to get to this is maybe smaller, more granular standardized test that do a better job of testing multiple specific dimensions over an academic career vs a big bang at the end. Somehow that actually sounds kind o…

> I think the closest we’d be able to get to this is maybe smaller, more granular standardized test that do a better job of testing multiple specific dimensions Don’t we pretty much have this via AP tests and SAT II Subject tests? > over an academic career vs a big bang at the end. I hate to say this, but describing the SAT as a “big bang” strikes me as funny. It’s a test of fundamental literacy and fundamental numer…

> I’m not sure what exactly we are trying to finesse with your suggested changes.

Maybe you should ask then instead of going on some dumb rant?

Maybe that was an attempt at a rhetorical question, but given how much you missed the mark, I took it more literally.

Big bang btw just refers to doing it all at the end all at once vs in smaller steps over time, it’s not to be taken literally. It doesn’t imply grandeur or anything like that.

Also, you missed the entire point of OPs message, as an educator, they were suggesting that perhaps the SAT doesn’t do all you suggested.

I don’t know what we’re trying to finesse either, can you explain what you mean by finesse?

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#389

Post by AnthonyMouse »

vkou wrote: post #380
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's also because younger people are more impulsive. This is more of a stereotype than a universal constant, and you could just as easily say things like "younger people have faster reflexes and better eyesight" etc. The question isn't whether some group in the aggregate has different statistical properties, it's whether we're willing to discriminate against an entire class of people, including the ones who aren't…

> This is more of a stereotype than a universal constant, It's a well-known fact. You may also observe how prisons are full of young people. Brains that are still developing are far more likely to make really stupid decisions without regard for consequences. If I were to pick qualities for a driver, and had to choose between 'Makes good decisions' versus 'Faster reflexes', I'd pick the former any day. Note that we do…

> It's a well-known fact.

It's a well-known fact that different people mature at different rates.

> You may also observe how prisons are full of young people.

The bulk of prison inmates are in their 30s and 40s:

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_age.j...

> Brains that are still developing are far more likely to make really stupid decisions without regard for consequences.

Then how come there are so many more 40 year olds in prison than 20 year olds?

> If I were to pick qualities for a driver, and had to choose between 'Makes good decisions' versus 'Faster reflexes', I'd pick the former any day.

But now we're back to experience, and you have to be allowed to do the thing before you can get that.

> Note that we don't let 12 year-olds drive. We have arbitrary age cutoffs that have nothing to do with quantifiable capability.

We do, but we shouldn't. If a 12-year-old can pass the driver's test then either that 12-year-old is competent to drive or your driver's test is inadequate in testing drivers.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#390

Post by donmcronald »

htrp wrote: post #263
donmcronald wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's crazy because I imagine cheating is trivial for those that want to do it. All you would need is a clean install, an HDMI splitter, and a tiny earbud stuffed in your ear. Then someone in an adjacent room can feed you answers. Even if they start making people put their ears up to the camera, that won't help much. Bone conducting headphones built into the arms of glasses will be virtually undetectable. Do you ban…

> just tried putting my bone conducting headphones against my upper jawbone inside my mouth and they work fine at 30% volume. Which brand.... and how drool proof are they over an hour long test?

Shokz. They are not waterproof AFAIK.
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