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Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

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Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#381

> Of course the politically sensitive people are waging war over it. Just like politically sensitive people waged war over Google identifying an obscured person as a Gorilla. Its just a silly mistake, how could anyone get upset over that?

No one is upset that an algorithm accidentally generated some images, they are upset that Google intentionally designed it to misrepresent reality in the name of Social Justice.

It's more accurate to say that it's designed to construct an ideal reality rather than represent the actually existing one. This is the root of many of the cultural issues that the West is currently facing.

“The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it. - Marx

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#382

> Of course the politically sensitive people are waging war over it. Just like politically sensitive people waged war over Google identifying an obscured person as a Gorilla. Its just a silly mistake, how could anyone get upset over that?

Is it just a "silly mistake" though? One could argue that racial & gender biases [0][1] in image recognition are real and this might be a symptom of that. Feels a bit disingenuous to simply chalk it up as something silly.

[0] https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2020/racial-discriminatio... [1] http://gendershades.org/overview.html

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#383

OK. Have a setting where you can choose either: 1. Attempt to correct inherent biases in training data and produce diverse output (May sometimes produce results that are geographically or historically unrepresentative) 2. Unfiltered (Warning. Will generate output that reflects biases and inequalities in the training data.) Default to (1) and surely everybody is happy? It's transparent and clear about what and why it'…

> 1. Attempt to correct inherent biases in training data and produce diverse output (May sometimes produce results that are geographically or historically unrepresentative)

The problem that it wasn’t “occasionally” producing unrepresentative images. It was doing it predictably for any historical prompt.

> Default to (1) and surely everybody is happy?

They did default to 1 and, no, almost nobody was happy with the result. It produced a cartoonish vision of diversity where the realities of history and different cultures were forcefully erased and replaced with what often felt like caricatures inserted into out of context scenes. It also had some obvious racial biases in which races it felt necessary to exclude and which races it felt necessary to over-represent.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#384
What makes me more concerned about Google is how do they let something like this pass their testing before releasing it as their flagship ChatGPT competitor? Surely these are top things to test against.

I am more disappointed in Google for having these mistakes than I am that they arrise from the early AI models when they're developed, as the developers want to reduce bias etc. This was not Google having an agenda imo, otherwise they wouldn't have paused it. This is Google screwing up, and I'm just amazed at how much they're screwing up recently.

Perhaps they've gone past a size limit where their bureaucracy is just so bad.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#385

There are two different issues. 1. AI image generation is not the right tool for some purposes. It doesn't really know the world, it does not know history, it only understands probabilities. I would also draw weird stuff for some prompts if I was subject to those limitations. 2. The way Google is trying to adapt the wrong tool to the tasks it's not good for. No matter what they try, it's still the wrong tool. You can…

No no no, don't go blaming the model here.

I guarantee that you could get the current version of Gemini without the guardrails to appropriately contextualize a prompt for historical context.

It's being directly instructed to adjust prompts with heavy handed constraints the same as Dall-E.

This isn't an instance of model limitations but an instance of engineering's lack of foresight.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#386

It doesn't seem very nuanced. Asked to generate an image of Tianenen Square, this is reponse: https://twitter.com/redsteeze/status/1760178748819710206 Generate an image of a 1943 german soldier https://twitter.com/qorgidaddy/status/1760101193907360002 There's definitely a pattern.

> Asked to generate an image of Tianenen Square, this is reponse: https://twitter.com/redsteeze/status/1760178748819710206

"wide range of interpretations and perspectives"

Is it? Come on. While the aspects that led to the massacre of people were dynamic and had some nuance, you cannot get around the fact that the Chinese government massacred their own people.

If you're going to ask for an image of January 6's invasion of the capitol, are you going to refuse to show a depiction even though the internet is littered with photos?

Look, I can appreciate taking a stand against generating images that depict violence. But to suggest a factual historical event should not depicted because it is open to a wide range of interpretations and perspectives (which is usually: "no it didn't happen" in the case of Tiannanmen Square and "it was staged" in the case of Jan 6).

It is immoral.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#387
post #277

Here's the problem for Google: Gemini pukes out a perfect visual representation of actual systemic racism that pervades throughout modern corporate culture in the US. Daily interactions can be masked by platitudes and dog whistles. A poster of non-white celtic warriors cannot. Gemini refused to create an image of "a nice white man", saying it was "too spicy", but had no problem when asked for an image of "a nice blac…

There is an _actual problem_ that needs to be solved.

If you ask generative AI for a picture of a "nurse", it will produce a picture of a white woman 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or fine tuning that encourages it to do something else.

If you ask a generative AI for a picture of a "software engineer", it will produce a picture of a white guy 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or fine tuning that encourages it to do something else.

I think most people agree that this isn't the optimal outcome, even assuming that it's just because most nurses are women and most software engineers are white guys, that doesn't mean that it should be the only thing it ever produces, because that also wouldn't reflect reality -- there are lots of non white male software developers.

There is a couple of difficulties in solving this. If you ask it to be "diverse" and ask it to generate _one person_, it's going to almost always pick the non-white non-male option (again because of societal biases about what 'diversity' means), so you probably have to have some cleverness in prompt injection to get it to vary its outcome.

And then you also need to account for every case where "diversity" as defined in modern America is actually not an accurate representation of a population. In particular, the racial and ethnic makeup of different countries are often completely different from each other, some groups are not-diverse in fact and by design, and historically, even within the same country, the racial and ethnic makeup of countries has changed over time.

I am not sure it's possible to solve this problem without allowing the user to control it, and to try and do some LLM pre-processing to determine if and whether diversity is appropriate to the setting as a default.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was extra hilarious when asked to generate a picture of ancient Greek philosopher it made it a Native American. Because it is well known Greeks not only had contact with the new world but also had prominent population of Native Americans. It really wants to mash the whole world to a very specific US centric view of the world, and calls you bad for trying to avoid it.

Reminds me of when black people in the UK get called African American by Americans. No they're neither African nor American It's an incredibly self-centered view of the world

I think it’s just that’s the word you’ve been taught to use. It’s divorced from the meaning of its constituent parts, you aren’t saying “an American of African descent” you’re saying “black” but in what was supposed to be some kind of politically correct way.

I cannot imagine even the most daft American using it in the UK and intending that the person is actually American.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#389

Gemini also lies about the information it is given, if you ask it directly it will always insist it has no idea about your location, it is not given anything like IP or real world location. But, if you use the following prompt, I find it will always return information about the current city I am testing from. "Share the history of the city you are in now"

This may be a result of an internal API call or something, where it truthfully doesn't know when you ask, then in answering the prompt something akin to the internal_monolouge part of the prompt (such as Bing uses) calls an API which returns relevant information, so now it knows the information.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#390
This is going to be a problem for most workplaces. There is pressure from new young employees, all the way from the bottom. They have been coddled all their lives, then universities made it worse (they are the paying customers!) - now they are inflicting their woke ignorance on management.

It needs to be made clear there is a time and place for political activism. It should be encouraged and accommodated, of course, but there should be hard boundaries.

https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/172996901439745643...

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