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jQuery v4.0 Beta

blog.jquery.com

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Re: jQuery v4.0 Beta

#381

Post by pjmlp »

ecshafer wrote: post #23
technojunkie wrote: post #18

For those of you who are curious what drives jQuery in 2024 and beyond, you need to remember that WordPress is still more than 1/3 of the web, and the majority of installations and so many plugins critically rely on jQuery. Yes, seriously. Any advances to removing deprecated APIs or functions are great. jQuery will probably be around dominantly on the web for years to come.

Also, jQuery is awesome. People have been in love with the overly complex and fancy javascript frameworks for the last 15 years or so. But jQuery doing dynamic binding to dynamically generated forms for some error states and maybe an ajax calls is literally all the javascript you need in 99% of web pages and the rest is overkill. The industry is going to move away from the complexities to React and towards more of th…

Fully agree, jQuery + Bootstrap + standard Web + SSR, and we're gold.

Re: jQuery v4.0 Beta

#382

Post by wouldbecouldbe »

viraptor wrote: post #360
wouldbecouldbe wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay then your comment is weird, windows & mac dont have distribution with node versions lower then LTS. It can be an issue on ubuntu/linux having an outdated registry. But nextjs clearly states minimum node version in their docs: https://nextjs.org/docs/getting-started/installation And how to install every version you want NVM, that's on the user if it didn't work. That's not something different then can happen with…

The context here is the "starting with" situation. It's much easier to do that with PHP since you normally don't have to care about versions there - barely anything requires version higher than in LTS. On the other side it doesn't matter what is clearly documented, or which registry is up to date - a person looking at this for the first time is either going to have an easier life or not. Nextjs effectively has extra…

that's simply not true. nodejs v12 is years old, its like using php5 and lots of platforms don't support 5 anymore.

Re: jQuery v4.0 Beta

#383

Post by viraptor »

wouldbecouldbe wrote: post #382
viraptor wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The context here is the "starting with" situation. It's much easier to do that with PHP since you normally don't have to care about versions there - barely anything requires version higher than in LTS. On the other side it doesn't matter what is clearly documented, or which registry is up to date - a person looking at this for the first time is either going to have an easier life or not. Nextjs effectively has extra…

that's simply not true. nodejs v12 is years old, its like using php5 and lots of platforms don't support 5 anymore.

Security support for node 12 ended in 2022. For php5, in 2018. Those are very different.

Rhel 7 is still alive, supports node 8, maybe 12, but nothing higher officially.

Re: jQuery v4.0 Beta

#384

Post by hu3 »

Capricorn2481 wrote: post #366
hu3 wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PHP let's people do really dumb ORM templating. PHP has nothing to do with ORM problems. Any language allows dumb stuff related to ORM. Those are the libraries rather than the language. PHP, like any language, has good and bad libraries. If a project uses a bad solution for ORM, the language is not to blame. I can do dumb ORM stuff in C#, Java, Rust, C++ and Python. If a project picked a bad framework 10 years ago…

Then it sounds like we disagree on what the thread is about. When I hear "I updated PHP and everything broke" I think "because libraries break between version upgrades." You seem to be arguing against a position that people aren't taking, which is that there's something inherently wrong with PHP as a language that makes it break when upgraded (which nobody has said). The same goes for Node, which doesn't break server…

How is this not a complain about the language?

> Again, JS is bad too, but we have to completely rewrite sites due to some PHP framework upgrades because PHP let's people do really dumb ORM templating.

I even quoted this part specifically in my reply:

> because PHP let's people do really dumb ORM templating.

Re: jQuery v4.0 Beta

#385

Post by silent_cal »

ecshafer wrote: post #23
technojunkie wrote: post #18

For those of you who are curious what drives jQuery in 2024 and beyond, you need to remember that WordPress is still more than 1/3 of the web, and the majority of installations and so many plugins critically rely on jQuery. Yes, seriously. Any advances to removing deprecated APIs or functions are great. jQuery will probably be around dominantly on the web for years to come.

Also, jQuery is awesome. People have been in love with the overly complex and fancy javascript frameworks for the last 15 years or so. But jQuery doing dynamic binding to dynamically generated forms for some error states and maybe an ajax calls is literally all the javascript you need in 99% of web pages and the rest is overkill. The industry is going to move away from the complexities to React and towards more of th…

I read that the JS fetch API makes jQuery obsolete, is that not true?

Re: jQuery v4.0 Beta

#386

Post by rjbwork »

docmars wrote: post #349
rjbwork wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's very hard to reason about DOM I don't mean to be overly snarky here, but as someone who's just totally out of their depth in modern web UI - is that why people like these frameworks? Because they're very easy to reason about? I've generally found them to be mountains and mountains of boilerplate and spaghetti, but I really do not have a wide base of experience to pull from on this topic.

Creating a brand new Vue app using Vite as your build system (official) takes less than 2 minutes and you can immediately start using Vue by following its documentation and creating a well-organized web application with its friendly patterns and solutions to the most common pro-UX problems you could encounter in a web app. Give it a shot, it's stupid-easy, and that's not downplaying anything either.

This is pretty funny because the front end team at my company decided last year to migrate from Vue to React because Vue is too complicated and it's hard to find people who know it vs React. Impossible for me to get a read on this stuff. Such a clusterfuck of an ecosystem.

Re: jQuery v4.0 Beta

#387

Post by silent_cal »

khasan222 wrote: post #264
ecshafer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, jQuery is awesome. People have been in love with the overly complex and fancy javascript frameworks for the last 15 years or so. But jQuery doing dynamic binding to dynamically generated forms for some error states and maybe an ajax calls is literally all the javascript you need in 99% of web pages and the rest is overkill. The industry is going to move away from the complexities to React and towards more of th…

I’ve been writing JavaScript for 15 years professionally, and I must say this comment seems to be made by someone not as familiar with the context here. Moving away from React and frameworks like it would require a radical rethinking of what we expect to do with web apps. Building something like google maps, google docs, figma, are definitely doable with some of these tools, but it is almost impossible to maintain. T…

These crazy libraries might make sense to you because you've been a JS dev for 15 years. JS is supposed to be a basic building block of the web. React places a learning curve in front of the everyday developer that is effectively impossible. It's fine if it's helpful in edge cases, but it shouldn't be the norm. Basic technology should be accessible.

Re: jQuery v4.0 Beta

#388

Post by scotty79 »

rjbwork wrote: post #47
bufferoverflow wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

jQuery is not awesome. It was awesome 15 years ago. Now it's completely outdated. It's very hard to reason about DOM that can be manually changed by any random piece of code. That's why declarative solutions like React/Vue/Svelte are so much better.

>It's very hard to reason about DOM I don't mean to be overly snarky here, but as someone who's just totally out of their depth in modern web UI - is that why people like these frameworks? Because they're very easy to reason about? I've generally found them to be mountains and mountains of boilerplate and spaghetti, but I really do not have a wide base of experience to pull from on this topic.

You can make spaghetti with everything. But without framework spaghetti is even worse. People who make a mess out react do it because they try to use it as if it is jquery.

Re: jQuery v4.0 Beta

#389

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

DrSiemer wrote: post #370
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://youmightnotneedjquery.com/ I'm convinced this site is actually satire and it designed to promote jQuery. In nearly every example, the native version is far more verbose.

It's just a random site I remembered from a long time ago, there are better ones out there. One of them convinced me that jQuery is just a crutch. I tried a small project without it and it really did not take long to adjust. These days I find vanilla far easier to read and it is a lot more clear to me what is actually happening in the code. Depending on jQuery limits your ability to work with code that does not use i…

FWIW, I'm not a front-end developer. I've had to do some over the years, but it's certainly not my area of expertise (I work in AppSec), so my opinion is worth very little.

jQuery might be a crutch, sure, but I'm not sure crutches are a bad thing. There's no reason to make something harder than it has to be. I just like how some things take far fewer key stroke and are less verbose, but still readable.

Readability is subjective. There are people that think Perl is fine and I think it ranks as one of the least readable languages to ever reach popular status. Meanwhile, I think Python is the most readable language to have ever been created, and somehow some people struggle with it, and tbh it kind of blows my mind.

Re: jQuery v4.0 Beta

#390

Post by dang »

jve wrote: post #268
cxr wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what you think that link shows (I don't know what John thought it showed, either—it's a classic "talking to one's own head, instead of who you're trying to communicate with" situation, and David Baron's confusion on the mailing list at the time is understandable). To reiterate: > The argument for querySelector / querySelectorAll calls is literally mimicked from John Resig's grounbreaking API design No, i…

So you couldn't get away with lazy and ignorant two word answer and it forced you to write quality one :) One would argue whether we'd have querySelector if jQuery wasn't as popular. We may have an inspiration chain here... but thanks for pointing out to prior art.

Please don't cross into personal attack, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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