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Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

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Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#381

Post by nodamage »

asadotzler wrote: post #380
nodamage wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, US antitrust law does not allow a single company's product to be considered a relevant market unless very specific criteria are met. Epic attempted to make this very argument in court and failed. "iOS app distribution" is not a valid relevant market for antitrust purposes.

You haven't been following Google's case closely enough.

The details of the two cases are very different and here, details matter. The courts have already rejected "iOS app distribution" as a valid antitrust market.

Edit: In case you're wondering why "Android app distribution" can be considered a relevant market whereas "iOS app distribution" was rejected even though they both sound like the same thing, the key difference is "iOS app distribution" is a single-brand aftermarket, and single-brand aftermarkets have stricter requirements in order to be accepted by the courts.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#382

Post by aurareturn »

danbruc wrote: post #328
aurareturn wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With that in mind, I should be able to run any operating system on an iPhone I bought. Apple should not be required to actively support this, put in extra work to document things or whatnot, but they should not be allowed to actively make things harder. I should be able to run any OS on my Samsung TV that I bought. Samsung should support it with an SDK. They should provide warranty and support for me if the OS I chos…

No, I don't. I specifically said that they should not be required to actively support this, write and publish documentation or even provide a SDK. And I said nothing about providing warranty, replacing the operating system could just void the warranty. Again, I did not ask for active support, I asked for no active blocking, i.e. putting in extra work to block something that would naturally be possible.

Ok, I read it wrong.

But I still disagree. Why does Apple have to allow a different OS to run on their hardware? That's absurd.

I don't demand that my refrigerator let me run my own software if I want to - nor do I demand that of my headphones, car, microwave, etc.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#383

Post by tekknik »

wraptile wrote: post #286
xivzgrev wrote: post #39

I mean I gotta give respect to Apple. They seem to have done the minimal technical compliance with the order. Users can make a purchase for their app outside of the App Store. But at the same time they put in as much friction as they could, including reframing the charge to developer as a lead commission - and the net cost to developer is HIGHER than using Apple. Of course epic is going to challenge the spirit of the…

> I mean I gotta give respect to Apple Are we pretending this giant abusive corporation is some cool movie gangsta or something? What is to respect here? Some c-suits dodging laws? The cult of apple never fails to surprise me - it's not that special lol.

compared to every other company out there, they are special. I also trust apple a heck of a lot more than even epic with my personal info.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#384

Post by tekknik »

yazzku wrote: post #275
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple can’t legally stop you from doing whatever you want with your phone. However I don’t see any reason Apple should be compelled to help you in using it with your own software.

You shouldn't have to jailbreak a phone to sideload your own software. There is a long stretch between not helping you and making it practically impossible.

you don’t, pay the $100 a year and build / sign your own iOS apps

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#385

Post by tekknik »

Jyaif wrote: post #338
robertlagrant wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt the EU has the mindset or ability to cultivate companies that are able to compete with Apple.

The companies that offer alternative (and likely cheaper) appstores could be american or asian for all the EU cares. The point is to allow competition.

Will the EU also dictate customer experience so when they force apple to allow others i don’t have to use 10 different websites to manage subscriptions and store my payment information on who knows who’s servers?

i’d personally rather have security and peace of mind that the company holding my information will not use it nefariously. is the EU thinking of the consumer in that regard or just focused on the simple minded “more competition is more better”?

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#386

Post by tekknik »

MerManMaid wrote: post #228
robertlagrant wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do have competition. Most phones aren't iPhones.

Just because most consumers outside the US use android instead of apple doesn't mean we shouldn't try to help protect hundreds of millions of users. There is a large enough portion of market along with all the businesses built around catering to this market that are unfairly being taken advantage of.

You know one of the techniques to rip off consumers is to hide in their transaction log. Get them to sign up for a subscription and help them forget they’re paying, that way they’re less likely to cancel.

Apple handles this quite well, having all your subscriptions in one place easily canceled and non of this shenanigans about losing access if you cancel mid subscription.

Have you app store social justice warrior types thought of this and how to protect consumers against that type of scumbaggery? Or is it more likely you don’t care about the consumer at all and just want alternative app stores for your own desires?

If apple were abusing their position, you may have a point. But you’re preemptively regulating them when they’ve been nothing but pro consumer. It’s clear this has nothing to do with the consumer.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#387

Post by tekknik »

nirvdrum wrote: post #231
aurareturn wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're developer friendly because they're trying to get marketshare. They're competing with market leader in Steam which charges 30%. Don't think for a second that they wouldn't charge 30% once they get enough market power. In fact, in the Apple lawsuit, it was revealed that the Epic Game Store was operating on a $300-$400m loss in order to acquire marketshare. Epic has to increase commission fees in order to break…

Isn’t that how competition works? Ideally, no company becomes so large that they don’t feel the pressure to remain competitive. Of course there’s countless examples of big players stagnating and becoming rent collectors with a captive market. But, I see that as all the more reason to have competition. I think it’s rather optimistic to believe the Epic Games Store going to overtake Steam. If that’s the criteria for ra…

> way to sell and players a way to purchase games cheaper.

If you believe because the cut is less on epic store (assuming a developer uses all the methods available to a game developer to reduce it) that they then charge less on the epic store you are mistaken. Prices are the same between the two stores.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#388

Post by tekknik »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #238
aurareturn wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're developer friendly because they're trying to get marketshare. They're competing with market leader in Steam which charges 30%. Don't think for a second that they wouldn't charge 30% once they get enough market power. In fact, in the Apple lawsuit, it was revealed that the Epic Game Store was operating on a $300-$400m loss in order to acquire marketshare. Epic has to increase commission fees in order to break…

I'm still optimistic, but I wouldn't be completely gobsmacked if I was wrong. I would have argued 20 years ago Valve would have done more to lock in their market (I was kind of right, but they are much more clever with it and it doesn't impact consumers). I also would have argued 20 years ago that Sony would topple Nintendo in the portable market. >Here's an example showing how they're just like any other company: Th…

there’s more to steam than the storefront, the “social network” side. game time tracking and end of year reports mean a lot to some gamers.

i don’t see epic making any meaningful impact in steams user base

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#389

Post by tekknik »

addicted wrote: post #190
lykahb wrote: post #108

Apple collects the rent from the apps that exist withn their walled garden. Epic employs behavioural specialists tasked in making their games addictive and coerce user into spending with micro-transactions. I do not want to take a side in this fight.

This isn’t about Apple vs Epic. This is about potentially illegal behavior by Apple that in this case negatively impacted Epic so they sued them. So basically your stance is that you are ok with, or at the very least indifferent to, illegal behavior as long as it’s against people you don’t like. That’s the basis of as lawless a society as one can get.

> That’s the basis of as lawless a society as one can get.

and unfortunately the path the US is headed down these days. dark times ahead indeed.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#390

Post by tekknik »

KingMob wrote: post #306
edgyquant wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False equivalency. Most people like living in America and tons of people want to move there, while only religious fanatics would be okay living in a country built and controlled by Al-qaeda

I'm sure any number of Christian lunatics would love to remake America into Y'all-Qaeda.

I’m guessing you don’t know much about religion?

Christianity and islam are quite a bit different, the latter literally convinving people to convert by sword.

And here I thought HN got rid of bigoted comments like this.

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