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Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

nytimes.com

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Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#381

Post by trashtester »

typedef_struct wrote: post #200
resolutebat wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, when you say "labor union", people think of a factory worker standing in a picket line outside some dinosaur car assembly plant in Flint, Michigan that's about to close anyway. The media has very successfully demonized unions, and many skilled workers believe the company line that unions drive down average wages, make it impossible to fire useless people, charge heavy membership fees, etc.

I usually think actors, writers, athletes, doctors, lawyers.

And teachers.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#382

Post by infecto »

sinuhe69 wrote: post #127

Seriously, why people in tech are opposed to unions? In Europe, unions and Betriebsrat (works committee) are the norm. Why not in the US?

I don't think its so much the industry as the geography. It is all about tradeoffs and I don't think there is a clear answer as to what the better way is. I am in the US and to me the American dream is the selling point here. While I don't think the American dream is as easy as it was decades ago, I do think its still very much a possibility when I see the number of immigrants that come either as skilled workers or labor and can really lift themselves up. I am not European but my impression is that lots of the EU advertises itself as stable.

I personally have no interest in joining a union. I don't think companies are my friend but I also know that it is bad to become complacent which I find a lot of lifers at big companies can become. I am not suggesting you need to be working 90 hour weeks but I do think a lot of individuals, including engineers, fall into the trap of doing one thing well and nothing else and stick into a single role for such a time that they lose plasticity. The employee - employer relationship is not a war against each other but a market balance, I need to be adding incremental value and the employer needs to be recognizing it and we are left to negotiate the terms.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#383

Post by [deleted] »

happytiger wrote: post #314
oaiey wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not the individual layoff which is the issue for the people. It is the general feeling that the little man get squeezed under the argument of cost savings and the rich man takes out even more than the year before, independent of the market and company performance. In the past the entrepreneur took the yearly risks and was rewarded or not for it. The variation / risk on the (unrealistic) return is now managed on…

It’s one metric: revenue per employee. In a more capital expensive market, such as our current one, this metric is the one corporate managers are focusing on. For example, Google: https://fourweekmba.com/google-revenue-per-employee/ Ultimately it’s about something called austerity, which is taught in mba-jargon filled economic theory as a way to keep the working classes inline. Since the 1920s, western countries have…

[deleted]

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#384

Post by hiq »

ken47 wrote: post #347

Google is overrated. It's been obvious for over a decade after they built an interview process that is heavily biased towards those who recently took an algorithms class. You had talking heads yammering about how hard it was to get into Google, which to be honest, made the company even less appealing. Is this a software engineering company or some kind of hyped up nightclub? Yeah, maybe it's a hard interview if you'v…

> It's been obvious for over a decade after they built an interview process that is heavily biased towards those who recently took an algorithms class.

What would you do instead? Threads about tech interviews are always the same: we all complain about the process with no real alternative when you want to hire at that scale.

In particular about:

> Just about every other skill that is needed to be a good software engineer.

How would you assess them better than current common processes like leetcode interviews?

If one could do better hiring at the same cost or less, the whole industry would be interested, even if they'd have to delegate some of their hiring to an external company. The fact that leetcode interviews are still so common indicates that maybe something is missing from alternatives, be it scalability, fairness or even whether they actually provide more signal than leetcode interviews.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#385

Post by CoastalCoder »

collyw wrote: post #283
rmrfchik wrote: post #175

Fire engineering since it is expenses. Hire sales since they earn money.

I don't see this comment going down well here regardless of how much truth there may be to it.

Probably won't go down well because it's clearly overly simplistic.

If taken at face value, software companies should simply have 0 software developers.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#386

Post by asadalt »

pyrale wrote: post #366
somedude895 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and products of the company are a shit show I guess we'll see if this turns out to be true. If it does, they'll realize their mistakes, and the competitors that didn't let people go should outperform them. If it doesn't, then it'll show that many tech companies simply overhired, which I think we all know they did over the past few years. I myself work at a telco where business has stagnated over the past decade, du…

> I guess we'll see if this turns out to be true. https://killedbygoogle.com/

surely you don’t want google to maintain 100s of experiments indefinitely.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#387

Post by melenaboija »

ponector wrote: post #214
jillesvangurp wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better put, the relationship you have with your employer is a business relation ship. It's not personal. They are not your friends, nor your enemies. It's simply a convenient arrangement between the two of you for as long as that lasts. And it might become convenient for either side to change that arrangement at any point. The more you earn, the higher the risk that at some point somebody decides that they want to sp…

It is a business relationship, but they always trying to convince employees that it is not. That it is a family, a friendship relationship. You should be reliable, you should help everyone in your "family". If you leave your "family" abruptly it is a kind of betrayal. Also funny is brainwashing employees to think that HR is their fried, that HR can help with issues at work. It is a business. Do minimum amount of work…

My advice is that if you ever feel like the poster and if you have the chance, change your job.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#388

Post by sgt101 »

whiplash451 wrote: post #168
mindwok wrote: post #98

I'm surprised to see so many comments here taking layoffs personally, or talking about how layoffs are stupid. Layoffs are not personal, and the corollary to that is that you should never treat your company as a friend. It's a company trying to maximize value. Also, layoffs do work. Almost every large, successful company has done them at some stage. They are an expected, and necessary, part of operating a company and…

"Layoffs do work" will require a little bit of proper evidence. With long-term effects if possible.

Well, it worked for the Telecom's industry.

yup.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#389

Post by varispeed »

otikik wrote: post #108
nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

I see what you are saying. I am an engineer-turned-EM and you don't know me, so please take everything I say with a grain of salt: > Your job is NOT safe. Nothing will make execs happier than having this line of thought popularized amongst engineers. It will allow them to hire cheaper, and exploit existing engineers more. I think a better way to put it is: "A job is not your family, and a job is not your identity. Yo…

> Nothing will make execs happier than having this line of thought popularized amongst engineers. It will allow them to hire cheaper, and exploit existing engineers more.

How is that? If a job is less secure, typically commands more pay. If you know you will be out of work in 6-12 months, your pay better include some cushion to cover time between jobs.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#390

Post by marcus0x62 »

sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote: post #296
ponector wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a business relationship, but they always trying to convince employees that it is not. That it is a family, a friendship relationship. You should be reliable, you should help everyone in your "family". If you leave your "family" abruptly it is a kind of betrayal. Also funny is brainwashing employees to think that HR is their fried, that HR can help with issues at work. It is a business. Do minimum amount of work…

Honestly a very depressing outlook. If I would really think this way I wouldn’t wanna work in this industry. The only times I was really happy and motivated at work was when I was working within a team where we were really friends - I’m still in contact with most of them years after the fact and some became really close friends - this was outside of IT though. Your line of thinking seems to be common in the IT indust…

There is a difference between your colleagues -- as people -- with whom you can have a close relationship, and the entity that is your employer, which you really have to assume would jettison you at a moment's notice, because almost all companies would if the need arose.

I don't think of it as depressing to act as if a fictional entity like a corporation isn't part of your family. By all means, be friends with your coworkers, show up and work hard, but don't get emotionally invested in a relationship with an LLC or a C Corp that can't love you back.

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