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Things are about to get worse for generative AI

garymarcus.substack.com

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Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#381

Post by wussboy »

EMM_386 wrote: post #355
FridgeSeal wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I really don’t see everyone else giving up here because “funny magic parrot box” can write some mid-tier high school essays. LLM people are really starting to veer into crypto-bro territory with the evangelising about how they’re the best thing since sliced bread and transistors.

> “funny magic parrot box” can write some mid-tier high school essays That's your take on LLMs? Ask it how it is possible for a photon to travel across the universe, arriving at the same time it departed, resulting in the journey taking zero time (in its reference frame). Ask what implications are if certain viral amino sequences result in messenger RNA translocating to the host cell nucleus, potentially with the ent…

The answers to all of those questions would be parroted from other research, and to the extent they were novel they would be incorrect.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#382

Post by sensanaty »

EMM_386 wrote: post #355
FridgeSeal wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I really don’t see everyone else giving up here because “funny magic parrot box” can write some mid-tier high school essays. LLM people are really starting to veer into crypto-bro territory with the evangelising about how they’re the best thing since sliced bread and transistors.

> “funny magic parrot box” can write some mid-tier high school essays That's your take on LLMs? Ask it how it is possible for a photon to travel across the universe, arriving at the same time it departed, resulting in the journey taking zero time (in its reference frame). Ask what implications are if certain viral amino sequences result in messenger RNA translocating to the host cell nucleus, potentially with the ent…

And it parroting answers back at you from textbooks and papers that are most definitely in its training data, probably with the identical wording you're using, is proof to the contrary of it being a "magic parrot box" as the other person put it? Or do you genuinely believe ChatGPT, a LLM, actually "came up" with these answers on its own?

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#383

Post by tjr »

tsumnia wrote: post #354
madamelic wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyright should be the problem of the person using the works and not the problem of the AI generating it. Unless Nintendo plans on busting down the doors of every person who tries to draw Mario or preventing little Timmy from making a parody of Coca-Cola, making it where AI cannot generated copyrighted works is insane imo. Those brands should be proud to be such a big part of the cultural fabric that it is difficult…

When I cover generative AI in my Ethics in AI lecture, one of few soapbox opinions I give is that GenAI is doing essentially what people do - copy others. Picasso has a quote about "Good Artists copy, Great Artists steal", which doesn't mean try to pass Lario and Muigi off as your own, but rather that great artists are able to take aspects from other works (also called 'inspiration') without being caught. My personal…

Timmy did not need to ingest the whole sum of human knowledge as a training set before he could draw a crayon copy of a cartoon character.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#384

Post by kayodelycaon »

CaptainFever wrote: post #128
RandomGerm4n wrote: post #27

Perhaps we should simply take this as an opportunity to finally abolish copyright. Smaller artists mainly earn their money with commissions. They are paid to do a very specific thing. Whether there is a copyright on the result is irrelevant. Someone else who would "steal" the image and use it without payment would apparently have fewer requirements. The person could have simply taken any AI image. Therefore, the arti…

Exactly. All of these just exposes the absurdity that is copyright laws. It happened before with the Internet and online piracy too, when redistribution became free and easy, yet the corporations and copyright holders refused to budge so they can retain their profits.

Here’s what happens with no copyright:

No one will have any right to their own creations. Anything an individual makes will belong to everyone. And since no attribution is required, no one will know who made it. An average artist’s value to society goes from low to non-existent.

In this world. big corporations will take everything created, claim as their own, and profit from it.

Right now, big corporations using other peoples work unattributed or unlicensed is unethical, because copyright exists. Remove that, and it becomes expected that every thought and idea you express belongs to whoever can make the most profit from it.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#385

Post by ledauphin »

jawngee wrote: post #291
koliber wrote: post #286

The responsibility for ensuring that copyrights were not violated fall on the person publishing the work. Whether they drew something themselves, hired an apprentice artists with no legal training to draw something, took a photograph of something, or used AI to create an image should not matter. Why does anyone assume that ChatGPT or other tools would NOT produce previously-copyrighted content? I can see a naive assu…

Your argument is nonsense. The junior artist in your hypothetical would have as much liability, if not more.

but would they have liability if they submitted their "output" to a senior artist, who immediately shot it down as obviously infringing? Surely not. It's not illegal to draw Mario - just illegal to make money off your drawing.

I think the real question is whether OpenAI should be allowed to charge for generating infringing content. Even though the unit cost of the Mario drawing is negligible, the sum total of their infringing outputs may be making them a lot of money.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#386

Post by croemer »

helf wrote: post #199
block_dagger wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ChatGPT is not an intelligent entity? What’s been comprehending and rewriting all my crappy code for several months? An auto-complete? There’s obviously emergent behavior there that is actually defined by the maker and most users as “intelligence.” Edit: typo

This line of logic is more frightening to me than actual AI. LLMs are really useful in a lot of scenarios but it takes 5 minutes playing with one to see that it isn't intelligent. But since you are the type of person who is seemingly using LLM "written" code in production, your ability to accurate assess anything is suspect at best. "Any technology, sufficiently advanced, is indistinguishable from magic". No, an LLM…

s/queue/cue/ ;)

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#387

Post by ImPleadThe5th »

madamelic wrote: post #329
Intox wrote: post #12

Or... things are about to get worse for copyright holders. I don't see any developped country pressing the brake on AGI in the near future to protect a few copyright holders from getting "stolen" in hypothetic scenarios.

Copyright should be the problem of the person using the works and not the problem of the AI generating it. Unless Nintendo plans on busting down the doors of every person who tries to draw Mario or preventing little Timmy from making a parody of Coca-Cola, making it where AI cannot generated copyrighted works is insane imo. Those brands should be proud to be such a big part of the cultural fabric that it is difficult…

The problem is the AI companies monetizing the work of copyrighted materials.

It's not a problem for me to draw Micky Mouse. It _is_ a problem when someone pays me to draw an animated mouse and I sell them a picture of Micky Mouse.

For me, its not really about the AI at all, it's a problem of undervaluing Artists contribution to these tools. And it's not even fully about copyright it's about not asking for permission to use their content and then creating an entire business on top of that stolen content.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#388

Post by peatmoss »

sanderjd wrote: post #67
meindnoch wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developing AGI is a matter of national security. "Content" isn't.

I'm curious: Have you seen indications that major militaries and politicians believe AGI , rather than special purpose ML for military purposes, is important for national security? I'm really not sure whether this is true, or whether military and political leaders think it's true.

I'd guess leaders are thinking more in terms of national capacity to create more advanced technologies than geopolitical adversaries. If US policy shakes out in a way that protects copyright holders at the expense of AI innovation, I think it's apparent that the end result will be that our rivals will both violate copyright and beat us to building widespread expertise.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#389

Post by stale2002 »

FridgeSeal wrote: post #356
Arainach wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is the bit I don’t get from the “feed everything to machine” LLM-maximalists. Do they think courts don’t take context into account, do they think all actions happen in a vacuum and that they can just skip along and ignore laws at their pleasure An entire generation of unicorn startups believed that (Uber, AirBnB, etc.). We see in the news every day that once you have enough money laws don't apply to you (most t…

> Uber and AirBnB The 2 darling startups that are now facing increasingly less rosy futures? Airbnb in particular is facing enough backlash that I’d be surprised if it lasts terribly much longer. Sure, they get away with it for a while, but not forever. > We see in the news every day that once you have enough money laws don't apply to you I agree with you here, but I think this is a much broader conversation about ca…

> The 2 darling startups that are now facing increasingly less rosy futures?

As of this moment uber is worth 120 billion and AirBnB is worth 80 billion.

Yes, they got away with it.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#390

Post by ImPleadThe5th »

stale2002 wrote: post #379
schneems wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rounding up a transaction and taking the leftovers wouldn’t be a crime worthy of the FBI for one transaction but it would be for a million or a billion. Scale matters and impact matters. If you’re making an ethical argument “it’s okay because it’s already happening to a lesser degree somewhere else” isn’t the flex you think it is. If you’re talking ethics, talk about impact. Who does it help the most who does it hurt…

> “it’s okay because it’s already happening to a lesser degree somewhere else” isn’t the flex you think it is. It actually is. It shows that we as a society are completely OK with this, and nobody is complaining about a very standard and common thing that all artists do. It shows that the outrage is fake, and people don't actually care about the issue.

I don't really care when creative people steal. I care when faceless soulless companies monetize stolen content from Artists.
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