Live data from Hacker News

Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

incident.io

381–390 of 432 posts

Re: Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

#381
post #378
post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it’s ok for science to be limited by politics?

They’re looking at their particular use case. That may limit the applicability of this to other people or companies, but that doesn’t make it politics.

When your CEO decides that your company will only buy Apple laptops, that is definitely a political football. Your CEO likes shiny things, and is willing to purchase the shiniest of them without regard to effectiveness or cost.

Re: Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

#382
post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren’t M series screen and storage speed significantly superior to your Intel MBP? I transitioned from an Intel MBP to M1 for work and the screen was significantly superior (not sure about storage speed, our builds are all on a remote dev machine that is stacked).

I only use laptop screen in emergencies. Storage is fast enough.

For my curiosity, what do you use for your main monitor? I’ve been wanting to replace my ultrawide with something better.

Re: Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

#383
post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only use laptop screen in emergencies. Storage is fast enough.

For my curiosity, what do you use for your main monitor? I’ve been wanting to replace my ultrawide with something better.

I use 4k 32' as my monitor. My home monitor is Dell U3219Q, I am very happy with picture quality, though kids say it is bad for gaming.

Re: Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This xkcd seems relevant also: https://xkcd.com/303/ One thing that jumps out at me is the assumption that compile time implies wasted time. The linked Martin Fowler article provides justification for this, saying that longer feedback loops provide an opportunity to get distracted or leave a flow state while ex. checking email or getting coffee. The thing is, you don't have to go work on a completely unrelated task.…

Spot on. The mind often needs time and space to breathe, especially after it's been focused and bearing down on something. We're humans, not machines. Creativity (i.e., problem solving) needs to be nurtured. It can't be force fed. More time working doesn't translate to being more effective and more productive. If that were the case then why are a disproportionate percentage of my "Oh shit! I know what to do to solve…

I agree to some extent. Though, I don't think it has to be a trade-off though. After a sub-5 second compile time, I go over to get a coffee to ponder the results of the compile rather than imagine what those results might be. Taking time to think is not mutually exclusive to a highly responsive dev process.

Re: Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

#385
post #223

I am ex-core contributor Chromium and Node.js and current core contributor to gRPC Core/C++. I am never bothered with build times. There is "interactive build" (incremental builds I use to rerun related unit tests as I work on code) and non-interactive build (one I launch and go get coffee/read email). I have never seen hardware refresh toggle non-interactive into interactive. My personal hardware (that I use now and…

Chromium is a massive project. In more normally-sized projects, you can build everything on your laptop in reasonable time.

When I worked at Chromium there were two major mitigations:

1. Debug compilation was split in shared libraries so only a couple of them has to be rebuilt in your regular dev workflow. 2. They had some magical distributed build that "just worked" for me. I never had to dive into the details.

I was working on DevTools so in many cases my changes would touch both browser and renderer. Unit testing was helpful.

Re: Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

#386

This is only tangentially related, but I'm curious how other companies typically balance their endpoint management and security software with developer productivity. The company I work for is now running 5+ background services on their developer laptops, both Mac and Windows. Endpoint management, priviledge escalation interception, TLS interception and inspection, anti-malware, and VPN clients. This combination heavi…

> have other companies found better ways to provide this security without impacting developer productivity as much? only way i've seen is if things get bad, report it to it/support and tell them what folder/files to exclude from inspection so your build temp files and stuff don't clog and slow up everything

Same here, but IMO, if company believes that such software is useful (and they wouldn't be using it if company believed otherwise), then why do they often (always?) include node_modules in exclusion rules? After all, node_modules usually contains a lot of untrusted code/executables

Re: Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting you saw less of an improvement in the M2 than we saw in this article. I guess not that surprising given the different compilation toolchains though, especially as even with the Go toolchain you can see how specific specs lend themselves to different parts of the build process (such as the additional memory helping linker performance). You're not the only one to comment that the M3 is weirdly capped…

That's what Xcode benchmarks seem to say. Yep, there appears to be no reason for getting M3 Pro instead of M2 Pro, but my guess is that after this (unfortunate) adjustment, they got the separation they wanted (a clear hierarchy of Max > Pro > base chip for both CPU and GPU power), and can then improve all three chips by a similar amount in the future generations.

Don’t you get better single core performance in m3 pro? Iirc it has stronger performance and efficiency cores as well.

Re: Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sooooo... C? You didn't answer the question and I would be surprised to hear that freaking Java had support for distributed compilation, and that has been around since the 90s. Take your pretentious non-answers elsewhere please.

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been considering buying a Mac specifically for LLMs, and I've come across a lot of info/misinfo on the topic of bandwidth. I see you are talking about M2 bandwidth issues that you read about on linkedin, so I wanted to expand upon that in case there is any confusion on your part or someone else who is following this comment chain. M2 Ultra at 800 GB/s is for the mac studio only. So it's not quite apples to apple…

Worth noting that when AnandTech did their initial M1 Max review, they never were able to achieve full 400GB/s memory bandwidth saturation, the max they saw when engaging all CPU/GPU cores was 243GB/s - https://www.anandtech.com/show/17024/apple-m1-max-performanc... . I have not seen the equivalent comparisons with M[2-3] Max.

Interesting! There are anecdotal reports here and there on local llama about real world performance, but yeah I'm just reporting what Apple advertises for those devices on their spec sheet

Re: Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been considering buying a Mac specifically for LLMs, and I've come across a lot of info/misinfo on the topic of bandwidth. I see you are talking about M2 bandwidth issues that you read about on linkedin, so I wanted to expand upon that in case there is any confusion on your part or someone else who is following this comment chain. M2 Ultra at 800 GB/s is for the mac studio only. So it's not quite apples to apple…

All this sounds right! If money is no object, and you don't need a laptop, and you want a suggestion, then I'd say the M2 Ultra / Studio is the way to go. If money is still no object and you need a laptop, M3 with maxed RAM. I have a 300GB/s M3 and a 400 GB/s M1 with more RAM, and generally the LLM difference is minimal; the extra RAM is helpful though. If you want to try some stuff out, and don't anticipate running…

The tech geek in me really wants to get a studio with an M2 ultra just for the cool factor, but yeah I think cost effectiveness wise it makes more sense to rent something in the cloud for now.

Things are moving so quickly with local llms too it's hard to say what the ideal hardware setup will be 6 months from now, so locking into a platform might not be the best idea.

Post reply on HN