The pro-Israel information war • Hacker News Board

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#381

Post by mkoubaa » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 10:14 PM UTC

rushingcreek wrote: post #66

beltsazar wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on "Israeli what". Anti Israeli government: It's not antisemitic. Anti Israeli people: It's antisemitic.

It’s more complicated than that. Criticizing Israeli settlements in the West Bank is not antisemitic. But suggesting that Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state is antisemitic as it implies ethnic cleansing. Both are arguably criticisms of the Israeli government.

Is saying that "no state has a right to exist, that they exist with the permission of the governed" antisemitic too?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#382

Post by andrepd » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 10:14 PM UTC

jdross wrote: post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

Pro-Ukraine viewd also outnumber pro-Russia views on twitter or facebook. Are the conclusions you draw from this fact the same? Why/why not?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#383

Post by Animats » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 10:14 PM UTC

Some of this information war seems to be intended from keeping the US from considering a third option - sitting this one out. One U.S. State Department official resigned over this when he saw Israel's weapons shopping list.[1]

The US could provide humanitarian aid, but not military aid. Cut military aid to Israel. Maybe still provide Iron Dome reloads, but that's about it. Bring in a hospital ship off Gaza, to care for the injured. Send a few frigates to protect it from all parties. Discourage outside interference. Then wait to see how this plays out. It's not the US's fight, after all.

Creating a lot of noise over the issue tends to force people to choose a side and eliminates middle options. That may be part of the intent of this campaign. "Are you with us, or against us". No, we're fed up with both of you.

[1] https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-political-scene/why-a-sta...

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#384

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 10:14 PM UTC

Scubabear68 wrote: post #140

ristlane wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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I’m not holding them to a higher standard. Imagine if you will someone going to start large scale bombing NYC. Or London. Or Rome. The Hamas attack was unprecedented and horrific. I don’t know that it justifies declaring all out war on and entire city. I can say that without being anti-Semitic.

[deleted]

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#385

Post by ComputerGuru » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 10:15 PM UTC

hotdogscout wrote: post #274

[flagged]

“Vocally against Israel” when he was just responding to character assassinations?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#386

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 10:15 PM UTC

hypeit wrote: post #169

ristlane wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m very pro-Palestinian. That’s yet another reason why I want Hamas gone. There’s no chance for social justice while terrorists are running the show.

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#387

Post by Cody-99 » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 10:15 PM UTC

wolverine876 wrote: post #278

EvgeniyZh wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Criticizing the actions of Israel is not anti-semitic, and many Israelis and Jews are critical of the Israeli government and its actions (even more than usual during the ongoing political crisis). Many of the critics I see lack nuance (basically, "rooting for the underdog"), but that's a different problem. The problem is complicated, and there is no simple solution (some kind of two-state may work after many years).…

> chants like "from the river to the sea" (meaning destroying Jewish country) What is the truth of that? I've seen Israeli advocates make that claim and many repeat it. I've also seen an explainer in legitimate source (maybe the NY Times?) say that it means both Palestinians and Jews should be free. Does anyone have some actual, authoritative information? Something from before October 7th might be good. > saying Isra…

Why do you think groups like Hamas, PIJ, and their supporters say it? Hamas literally use the words "from the river jordan in the east to the Mediterranean" in their charter while calling for the destruction of Israel. Reading that that statement as anything other than calling for the destruction of Israel is mental gymnastics. When far right nationalists tell you what they want to do take their word for it.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#388

Post by sertbdfgbnfgsd » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 10:15 PM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #76

sertbdfgbnfgsd wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. > If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views. That platforms prioritize one over the other is just one possible explanation. An alternative explanation is that more people already have those views. And it's dishonest to present one explanation and omit the other. N…

And where do you think that comes from? Some coherent well researched culturally deep understanding of history and the current status of things by the entire population? Of course not, it’s propaganda. There are ethnic conflicts worldwide that often have more bloodshed, many occurring simultaneously right now, but this gets all the rhetoric and attention.

> There are ethnic conflicts worldwide that often have more bloodshed, many occurring simultaneously right now, but this gets all the rhetoric and attention.

That's funny, because you sound like the kind of person who says the same about every conflict.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#389

Post by TheOtherHobbes » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 10:15 PM UTC

matkoniecz wrote: post #172

KittenInABox wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think they are saying that the composition of users of these apps skews one way rather than the other due to pre existing stances I think the notion that the vast chunk of Twitter or TikTok had a pre existing stance on Israel/Palestine before Oct 7 is kind of silly, imo? Before this I could scroll Twitter without seeing anything about Israel or Palestine for... idk. Weeks, months at a time. I'll maybe see one thi…

> I really struggle to believe anyone beyond a small minority even thought about Palestine or Israel before Oct 7. This appeared repeatedly as important news, sadly mostly due to wars and terrorism. Jerusalem relevance alone for multiple religions with its holy sites made it important topic for many.

People being aware of the issue isn't the same as the issue being their primary interest. Or even being in their top ten interests.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#390

Post by dralley » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 10:15 PM UTC

mandmandam wrote: post #235

sabarn01 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an ocean of injustice in the world and this one issue causes more anger than many that are equally abhorrent.

Are there actually many equally abhorrent issues right now? I can think of like, 2, and they're both involving the exact same actors. Doctors were forced at gunpoint to leave premature babies to rot at Al Nasr hospital. And you're surprised that the world is horrified?! Journalists and healthcare staff and schools have been targeted at a shocking rate. Civil infrastructure and historic churches blown up without the t…

This comes off as ignorant of events happening elsewhere.

Approximately 600,000 people died in the Tigray conflict in Ethiopia in the two years from November 2020 to November 2022. 40% of the Ethiopian population is children.

The Yemeni civil war (2016-present) had killed at least 377,000 people, as of two years ago. By now, many more than that.

There are mass graves in Mali and Sudan where hundreds of bodies are just piled up on top of each other, visible from space, thanks to collaboration between Wagner Group and the local regime.

Syria is bombing their own population once again at this very moment, in continuation of their 10 year civil war which has killed at least 300,000. Notably, many, many images from the Syrian civil war have been recycled as supposed footage from Gaza (https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2023/12/08/images-of-syrian-...) for propaganda purposes - not that there isn't plenty of legitimate horrible footage from Gaza too.