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Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance

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Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance

#381

Post by madacol »

_a_a_a_ wrote: post #366
madacol wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when you "do something" what are you talking about?, can you give me a couple of examples please?

Join an organisation and work actively with them (just joining is doing nothing). Contact MPs or other representatives[1]. Contact relevant bodies and pressure them. Give cash (making sure it gets used wisely). Offering your skills as a professional, where relevant. [1] Despite what people say, this works, if slowly.

I personally feel powerless, or that it requires a huge amount of work to have a significant impact.

If what you say is true, It could be very persuasive to inform about the expected impact a single person could have by just doing X.

For example, describing how contacting MPs work, why would they care about what I say? giving a specific example, with rough estimates of number of people that need to contact or if it's more important the words chosen to achieve impact

I would be interested in reading a good blog post describing the expected impact of activism in politics, especially on topics that I really care about, like privacy and freedom.

I want to know what powers I have to change the things I care!

Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance

#382

Post by _a_a_a_ »

madacol wrote: post #381
_a_a_a_ wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Join an organisation and work actively with them (just joining is doing nothing). Contact MPs or other representatives[1]. Contact relevant bodies and pressure them. Give cash (making sure it gets used wisely). Offering your skills as a professional, where relevant. [1] Despite what people say, this works, if slowly.

I personally feel powerless, or that it requires a huge amount of work to have a significant impact. If what you say is true, It could be very persuasive to inform about the expected impact a single person could have by just doing X. For example, describing how contacting MPs work, why would they care about what I say? giving a specific example, with rough estimates of number of people that need to contact or if it's…

If you care then just do something. I've said enough. It's cost me enough.

Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance

#383

Post by Slava_Propanei »

hn_acker wrote: post #369
logicchains wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wonder what would happen if there were not politicians, if the parliament of Europe were the sum of all its citizens voting for laws in some sort of mega-stack-overflow consensus system There's another way to achieve something similar less chaotically: demarchy, which was used for some things in ancient Greece. This involves electing people at random for a limited time period; if the selection is truly random, the…

Some states in the US permanently ban felons from voting [1]. I want the eligible voting population to be all citizens over the age of 18 with no regard to history and conduct, because I favor universal suffrage and don't want governments to have leeway over who is "worthy" to vote in a democracy (yes, the US is a representative democracy). My population of eligible representative candidates in a demarchy would be th…

[dead]

Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance

#384

Post by hackandthink »

hn_acker wrote: post #373
hackandthink wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not discuss with Nazis. If they are criminal they should be prosecuted. Otherwise I ignore them. Noam Chomsky - Should Neo-Nazis Be Allowed Free Speech? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui1vmS9Yz5M

> If they are criminal they should be prosecuted. You should be a bit more careful about your word choice, since making hate speech a crime would make Neo-Nazis criminals.

Good point.

I also realize that there is no clear demarcation between speech and criminal action and that my position cannot be upheld in the strict sense.

Nevertheless, I seem to be orders of magnitude more liberal than the mainstream about what is permissible speech. And I continue to find the extent to which speech is monitored and regulated disturbing, and it's getting worse.

The STASI (GDR) were amateurs in comparison.

Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance

#385

Post by kypro »

csomar wrote: post #341
kypro wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll add that a guy got sentenced to prison in Switzerland last week for calling someone a fat lesbian in a video that he posted two years ago. What is considered hate speech is very broad these days – Nazism would actually be on the more extreme side of what is considered an arrestable hate crime.

That’s a bit extreme (and disturbing). Got a link for that?

I'll note I don't know anything about the guy. He doesn't seem to hold very pleasant views from what I've read, but that shouldn't be relevant.

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/swiss-lgbtq-groups-...

Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance

#386

Post by kypro »

api wrote: post #193
kypro wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One problem might be that we teach everyone about the dangers of fanatical explosive totalitarian movements like Hitlerism and Stalinism but not enough about “softer” creeping authoritarianism that is less easy to identify or oppose. Both are a risk but the strong man cult type is easier to mobilize people against. This is entirely the problem in my opinion. When you talk to Europeans you'll notice they tend to be…

Here’s an analogy: Populist demagogues becoming dictators or the rise of fanatical cult ideologies are like hurricanes and tornadoes. They can start quickly, hit hard, and do a ton of damage. They are also easy to spot and there are known ways to respond to them. Creeping bureaucratic authoritarianism and the slow erosion of democracy is like climate change. It ebbs and flows but mostly flows, but the trend is slow a…

Thanks for sharing. I really like this analogy.
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