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Oil sector is lobbying for inefficient hydrogen cars to delay electrification

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Re: Oil sector is lobbying for inefficient hydrogen cars to delay electrification

#381

Post by rovolo »

baq wrote: post #321
theshrike79 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

_You_ don't. We do. There are 6 over 100kW charging spots under 1km of my house. Although I don't need any of them, because I can charge where I park at 2kW all day and night.

6 is a number an order of magnitude too small unless you live in a desert. If you live in a city, it's probably closer to two orders. To support 60 assuming ~50% utilization you'll need 1MW per 1 sqkm additional power. This isn't a small number. The grid anywhere is absolutely not ready for such a rapid increase of load. There isn't enough refined copper produced worldwide to upgrade the grid. I mean setting up a cop…

Why does a city need ~100 L3 chargers per km2? People don't need to drive as far within a city, so even home L1 chargers should handle most city residents needs. The L3 chargers seem most useful on highways exiting the city.

Re: Oil sector is lobbying for inefficient hydrogen cars to delay electrification

#382

Post by elihu »

tooltalk wrote: post #373
elihu wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Batteries go bad over a rather short period of time" Not really. They do gradually lose capacity over a long time, but it's a slow process. The US Government requires EV batteries to have an 8 year / 100,000 mile warranty, and California requires 10 years and 150,000 miles. I expect most batteries will significantly exceed that. LFP batteries generally have about 3x the longevity of other lithium ion types. There…

According to Recurrent's recent report, most EVs lose only about 10% of SOH (or battery capacity/range) after 100,000 miles. >> LFP batteries generally have about 3x the longevity of other lithium ion types This is not true at all. All LFPs in EVs degrade much faster than other lithium ion batteries: Tesla LFP Battery 10% RANGE LOSS PROBLEM? | Model 3 RWD (Cleanwatt citing Tessie's data) The brand new LFP batteries w…

LFPs lose some of their capacity early on, but then the degradation is much slower. It's just a weird quirk, it doesn't mean they're going to fail quickly.

Re: Oil sector is lobbying for inefficient hydrogen cars to delay electrification

#383

Post by zo1 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #303
zo1 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're apparently "banned" or "dangerous" at fuel filling stations. Whether that's actually true is a different matter, but all the stations I've been to have had prominent "cellphones not allowed" signs displayed.

What country is this? I've never seen this in the US.

South Africa, but UK also had it if I'm not mistaken.

Re: Oil sector is lobbying for inefficient hydrogen cars to delay electrification

#384

Post by t3rabytes »

tekknik wrote: post #353
t3rabytes wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re 1: The US built 1,000,000 new homes last year without anyone saying "how we the country cope with this increase in need for wood/etc". Most new homes will have multiple 50A circuits to power an electric range and/or HVAC system. Most level 2 electric car chargers max at 50-75A, and can be configured to only charge during times of low grid power demand. Every electric car in existence won't be DC fast charging all…

We have plenty of wood, go outside and see for yourself. We currently have very visible issues with the power grid, and as you’ve pointed out you’ve doubled every houses power demand. Let’s look at what happened in TX, when the grid shut down. How will people charge their cars to leave the area? Maybe people used the gasoline engine in their car to provide heat.

TX has a mismanaged power grid with no interconnects to load share by choice, how does that apply to the rest of the US? CA’s problems aren’t demand driven.

I live in a state that gets almost its entire gasoline supply from a single pipeline (Colonial) that has burst or leaked and left us with mass shortages several times in the last decade.

Re: Oil sector is lobbying for inefficient hydrogen cars to delay electrification

#385

Post by tooltalk »

elihu wrote: post #382
tooltalk wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Recurrent's recent report, most EVs lose only about 10% of SOH (or battery capacity/range) after 100,000 miles. >> LFP batteries generally have about 3x the longevity of other lithium ion types This is not true at all. All LFPs in EVs degrade much faster than other lithium ion batteries: Tesla LFP Battery 10% RANGE LOSS PROBLEM? | Model 3 RWD (Cleanwatt citing Tessie's data) The brand new LFP batteries w…

LFPs lose some of their capacity early on, but then the degradation is much slower. It's just a weird quirk, it doesn't mean they're going to fail quickly.

>> LFPs lose some of their capacity early on, but then the degradation is much slower. ... There is nothing weird about lithium ion batteries, including LFPs, degrading quickly under high SOC/high C-rates -- ie, EVs. We don't know anything about LFP's longevity in EV profil, and, while there is no long-term data on LFP's true lifespan in EVs, it's been demonstrated that LFP could lose as much as 1/3 of its lifespan under 100% SOC in ESS profile.

LFP's are already mostly limited to entry-level, low-range EVs due to its other technical short-coming in moving vehicles (ie, low energy density and weight). This quick degradation makes LFP even less appealing in vehicles.

Re: Oil sector is lobbying for inefficient hydrogen cars to delay electrification

#386

Post by tekknik »

t3rabytes wrote: post #384
tekknik wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have plenty of wood, go outside and see for yourself. We currently have very visible issues with the power grid, and as you’ve pointed out you’ve doubled every houses power demand. Let’s look at what happened in TX, when the grid shut down. How will people charge their cars to leave the area? Maybe people used the gasoline engine in their car to provide heat.

TX has a mismanaged power grid with no interconnects to load share by choice, how does that apply to the rest of the US? CA’s problems aren’t demand driven. I live in a state that gets almost its entire gasoline supply from a single pipeline (Colonial) that has burst or leaked and left us with mass shortages several times in the last decade.

Yet your problem is not nationwide, at least two states are having issues.

Re: Oil sector is lobbying for inefficient hydrogen cars to delay electrification

#387

Post by tekknik »

pornel wrote: post #378
tekknik wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah so it is variable. Ok glad that’s clear. I also only fill my gas vehicle once a week. Sitting at a pump (charging station) for 30 mins a week is still too long. Not every person will be able to have a charger at home (think apartments, condos, hotels, homeless, etc)

You don't need to be near the car while it's charging, so usually EVs are charged while they're parked. There could be a charger at your work, or in a shopping mall, at a hotel. You keep the car plugged while it's parked, and it doesn't take more of your time than 30 seconds it takes to plug and unplug. You can be elsewhere working/shopping/sleeping. In some countries there are already laws that require new parking l…

Eh, you don’t want to monitor something taking a household worth of power? In the RC car world we monitor substantially smaller batteries and even charge them in a specific bag because of the risk. How long until you think it catches fire? A house down the road from me just burned down from an EV that ignited from a short, and risked all the houses around it. Meanwhile it takes 3 minutes to fuel a gasoline vehicle and you can still do it anywhere.
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