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D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

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Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#381

Post by [deleted] »

readingnews wrote: post #360
jdietrich wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>From an operational and strategic security POV, cash is a vastly superior technology. It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. If the power goes out, I can't get any cash. I don't keep any meaningful amount cash on hand and neither does anyone I know, including my elderly relatives. Most of the stores I shop at won't actually be able to sell me anything, because none of the products…

>> If the power goes out, I can't get any cash. I don't keep any meaningful amount cash on hand and neither does anyone I know, including my elderly relatives. Well, that is well on your single data point, here is mine: I live in a bad weather prone area of the united states. I do not know _anyone_ that does _not_ have a meaningful amount of cash in the house for bad weather. Yes, stores here operate with low/no powe…

[deleted]

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#382

Post by Spivak »

SuperNinKenDo wrote: post #117
Spivak wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really any different from Netflix being card only? Or worse being online-only so you need a relationship to an ISP?

Personally I think Netflix should be compelled to offer a path to using cash as well.

I'm not really sure how you could ever realize something like this without inventing prepaid cards which go through a card network anyway and are just ephemeral bank accounts backed by real banks.

Any business that is large enough can get their gift cards in retail stores which would be fine. It would definitely create a moral hazard if Netflix had to provide a cash option like this because retail stores would suddenly have crazy amounts of leverage but w/e. But then naturally there would be market need for "accept cash payments for your online service" as a service for smaller businesses that can't just get partnerships with Target and Kroger and the entity providing that service would just be a bank issuing branded prepaid cards but using their own bespoke card network.

Like you can't fight it, you always invent Visa.

You could probably cut card networks out eventually with $as_of_yet_unlaunced_service backed by FedNow but that's not exactly cash and still requires a bank account.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#383

Post by local_crmdgeon »

fragmede wrote: post #3

Interesting. I get why you'd want to ban cashless business, but many business in a nearby town with a high crime rate are going cashless because you can't rob a Square reader quite as easily as a cash register.

Thankfully DC has very low crime so they can instead tackle headline issues like this /s

A congressman was just carjacked in SW DC. The city was really great in the aughts and teens and has gone to shit post-2020. I wish they'd focus on cracking down on crime, which is working really well in NYC.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#385

Post by cycrutchfield »

noduerme wrote: post #161
cycrutchfield wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s an expensive burger restaurant, not a grocery store. Having a bank account and a debit card doesn’t mean “participating in a debt-based system”.

Yea, both of those things mean participating in a debt-based system. If your money is all on loan from your credit card company, or in a bank that charges you fees to get it out, you literally have nothing. I don't give a flying fuck how expensive the hamburger is, the same thing applies to Dollar General or to tickets to the opera. A company FORCING consumers to use their money through a middle man bank creates a pr…

You must be using the wrong banks.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#386

Post by Chris2048 »

jbotdev wrote: post #277
Chris2048 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't just for infra failure. When your credit card provider cuts you off for "unusual activity" that they won't go into detail about, and you realise they are free to refuse you business as they feel like - you'll appreciate cash while rushing to find a new provider as existing debts still loom.

I’ve actually run into this more with debit/cash accounts than with credit cards. I’ve had checking accounts frozen, but I’ve never had a credit card entirely suspended for “unusual activity”. At worst they’ve declined individual charges until I called, or I just switched to a different card, since it’s easy to have many redundant credit cards.

I have CCs suspended all the time, requiring verification (often steam purchases..). In this case I'm talking about the entire account, and linked CCs, suspended for activity - all incoming payments, card payments and direct debits suspended.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#387

Post by cycrutchfield »

noduerme wrote: post #149
Ferret7446 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no "forcing". If there is sufficient demand for paying with cash, then someone will start a business that accepts cash and charges more, thus making more profit. More people will start such businesses, driving down the price until the price accurately affects the additional risk plus market demand. If no such business exists, it is because the cost of the risk/hassle of dealing in cash is too high compared t…

This is akin to saying that if there were sufficient demand for free speech rights, privacy, or the abolition of slavery, markets would provide for those things - and that their removal is simply an economic function. Like, if enough people want handjobs from non-sex-trafficked sex workers, surely some massage parlors will open to cater to ethical customers, right? Markets do not guarantee civil rights, and they shou…

That’s a lot of words built on top of a rather flimsy assertion that using cash is a civil rights issue, which I don’t think any court has actually ruled on. It seems like a right that people have invented from thin air.

The answer to people being unbanked is to make banking easier and less discriminatory. Not to force everybody to accept cash.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#388

Post by fodkodrasz »

rescbr wrote: post #324
fodkodrasz wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding resilience, and no need for electricity, and network: In Hungary currently it is mandatory to use networked cash registers for cash transactions and centralized digital reporting system for issuing invoices. There are some minor exemptions, for farmer's markets and some similar specific niche very low volume cash transactions. I know about no disaster protocols. (though the Hungarian mindset wouldn't give a…

If it is like in Brazil, the tax-enabled receipt printers have onboard memory that stores the transactions to send them off-line if the tax agency's servers are down. Something that I've learned when I worked with those devices in the past is that the tax authorities do have strong contingency plans.

That still needs electricity. I still won't be able to go into the store and buy some bottled water, a bucket and some sawdust for a makeshift toilet until the services come back, if the shopkeeper insists that the transaction needs its "electronic papertrail", despite having enough cash at hand, and the store having enough stock of the wares.

I don't know about the implementation details of the system, it is working since about 8-10 years ago without any major noteworthy issue/outage apart from some minor hiccups in the initial deployment. It sounds logical that some similar disconnected operation should be available here as well.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#389

Post by kwhitefoot »

throwaway9870 wrote: post #281
jdietrich wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>From an operational and strategic security POV, cash is a vastly superior technology. It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. If the power goes out, I can't get any cash. I don't keep any meaningful amount cash on hand and neither does anyone I know, including my elderly relatives. Most of the stores I shop at won't actually be able to sell me anything, because none of the products…

Have you never walked into a store and they said you can't use a CC because their reader is down? It is nice to have a few dollars in your pocket for times like that.

In most Norwegian supermarkets the card readers (chip and pin and contactless) still work even if disconnected from the network. In my local one they just print two copies of the receipt and ask you to sign one just in case the reconciliation process fails when the network comes online again. Some small stores have an account with Vipps so if their readers actually are down but the phone network is up then they just ask you to pay with Vipps (https://www.lifeinnorway.net/what-is-vipps/).

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#390

Post by nathancahill »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #246
didntcheck wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new "meta" seems to be charging you a tax for not using their loyalty card. Items at Tesco are now significantly more expensive if you don't scan a Clubcard. I suppose it is easier to rotate those than bank cards though

Can you just type in a phone number? In the US, you can always type in the rickroll phone number as a reward card. If it doesn't work, it's incumbent upon you to set up the profile for that store to keep the system going.

I hate to ask, but what's the rickroll phone number?
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