Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis • Hacker News Board

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#381

Post by Timshel » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:11 PM UTC

Verdex wrote: post #309

Omon Ra [1] is probably the most important book I've ever read. The wikipedia page suggested to me that it would be a surreal alternate history comedy about the Russian space program. There was however no comedy ... or at least nothing that was comedic to me. The point, at least as I interpreted it, was that society is very good at building callous machines that throw away human lives for no reason and then the same…

I don't know to me the main issue is that proper protection measure which exists are just either not properly implemented or enforced.

No matter if the countertop last forever you still died just for someone greed or utter apathy and negligence ...

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#382

Post by brianwawok » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:11 PM UTC

leoqa wrote: post #377

xwdv wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the same thing happen even in software. A developer here died 2 years ago, now 2 years later his contributions to the code base have finally been completely erased and replaced.

Yes but he didn’t die by typing in his keyboard. Our impact is transient, no one is irreplaceable.

Hey causation is very hard to prove…

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#383

Post by AnthonyMouse » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:12 PM UTC

ffgjgf1 wrote: post #291

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the government is enforcing the law, they can't do that because it has been illegal for a thousand years. If the government isn't enforcing the law, what good is a new law for them to not enforce?

They were enforcing some laws and doing so selectively. Striking workers were usually on the wrong side of the law though because they were using coercion and force to make every worker to participate in strikes (they could hardly work any other way without laws restricting “right to work”)

> they could hardly work any other way without laws restricting “right to work”

Well sure they could. The workers who agree with the strike go on strike and if that's enough of them to put pressure on the employers to meet their demands, their demands get met.

If it isn't, you've failed to convince your fellow workers that the light is worth the candle and if you don't want to work under the terms that they do, you can go work for someone else.

This is mainly a problem when there is no other someone else to work for, but now you're back to anti-trust rather than labor laws.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#384

Post by brianwawok » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:14 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #372

pseudosavant wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A scenario I have encountered many times is having someone doing work for me, they don't bring some basic safety gear like earplugs or masks. I have plenty of earplugs and masks though. Buy I can never get them to actually use them. They'd rather hear that jackhammer at full volume apparently? As a musician, it especially kills me to watch people destroy their ears. These workers are often too young to appreciate goo…

Their body, their choice. I support everyone's right to destroy themselves if they choose to do so. If we don't have the right to destroy ourselves, how can we also have rights to build and better ourselves? How can we be said to own ourselves at all if we can't choose to destroy ourselves? The idea that we can't be allowed to choose to harm or destroy ourselves is the most fundamental violation of the most basic of…

You will pay their tax funded health expenses too?

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#385

Post by alex_lav » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:14 PM UTC

sterlind wrote: post #359

alex_lav wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers must provide PPE. Firing skilled laborers harms both the employer and the employee. > Workers must wear it or be let go. Firing skilled laborers harms both the employer and the employee. > This is not hard. It seems very hard.

Firing them wouldn't harm them more than letting them destroy their lungs. And PPE requirements are commonly mandatory: you can't set foot in a construction area without a hardhat, no matter who you are.

> And PPE requirements are commonly mandatory

Yes, and it's mandatory to drive the speed limit. And yet, here we are.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#386

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:15 PM UTC

Arrath wrote: post #370

alex_lav wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers must provide PPE. Firing skilled laborers harms both the employer and the employee. > Workers must wear it or be let go. Firing skilled laborers harms both the employer and the employee. > This is not hard. It seems very hard.

> It seems very hard. Its not. From a most basic level you (whatever position you're in, I've been the laborer myself, later the foreman and more recently the superintendent, now the field engineer) must keep an eye out and do your part to first, instill the safety culture, secondly to enforce it and hit any lapses as soon as they happen (sit someone out, send them home, write them up) and third, show everyone that y…

yeah, this seems like one of those over-analyzing things.

"what if I bend incorrectly whilst picking up this gum wrapper that blew into my yard?!?!".

technically they're not saying anything that's untrue, and yet...

and yes, I get it, a full on back support belt to pick up a gum wrapper is probably overkill, but walking around a construction site without steel toed boots sure as shit isn't. You may disagree with exactly where that line sits, but there is a line, and when it's crossed "it aint hard".

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#387

Post by IngvarLynn » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:16 PM UTC

Verdex wrote: post #309

Omon Ra [1] is probably the most important book I've ever read. The wikipedia page suggested to me that it would be a surreal alternate history comedy about the Russian space program. There was however no comedy ... or at least nothing that was comedic to me. The point, at least as I interpreted it, was that society is very good at building callous machines that throw away human lives for no reason and then the same…

Double bollocks.

First, you're striping agency from those workers blaming abstract society instead. There is no such thing as "collective guilt". Those particular workers are free to leave such an unsafe industry at any moment, probably even more free than, say, smokers who choose death from respiratory complications. I have exactly zero empathy for either. True that sometimes workers are not exactly free to leave the job and coerced into insane working conditions, e.g. the curse of russian monotowns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwzP-zr0S0c . That is definitely not the case for california though.

Second, your interpretation of the book is not right. Works of Pelevin, just as many other great writers, are not exactly fiction, but a compilation of a real life contemporary trends distorted by weird observation angle and grotesque style. The core theme of Omon Ra is very basic: government brainwashes people to be literal disposable cogs. AFAIR the book does not reference "society" in any way. I've read the book over 20 years ago though. One great thing about Pelevin is that he definitely had access to people of highest power at some point (early 00's at least) and translated their completely crazy worldviews into his books.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#388

Post by smeyer » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:17 PM UTC

SoftTalker wrote: post #380

Weird this is happening in California of all places, the most regulated state in the country when it comes to potentially hazardous materials and workplace and consumer safety?

Do the same characteristics that make it the most regulated state also make it the state most likely to notice these hazards before other states do? If so, it wouldn't be very weird.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#389

Post by mjh2539 » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:17 PM UTC

bafe wrote: post #194

mhb wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The materials are a second order effect. Undoubtedly breathing granite, soapstone or whatever dust isn't good for you either. Maybe it just takes longer to kill you.

Isn't soapstone closely related to asbestos? I'd expect it to produce the same type of powder that makes asbestos so dangerous (and on top of silicosis it can give you mesothelioma)

Soapstone is primarily composed of talc. Talc deposits sometimes have asbestos minerals included in them.

Pretty much any aerosolized mineral is going to wreak havoc on your lungs.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#390

Post by femiagbabiaka » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:18 PM UTC

SoftTalker wrote: post #380

Weird this is happening in California of all places, the most regulated state in the country when it comes to potentially hazardous materials and workplace and consumer safety?

Well sure. There is no regulation with 100% compliance, and some regulation that inspires non-compliance. Safety regulations in the trades are taken as a joke in general. An example I heard back in the day: How many OSHA inspectors does it take to change a lightbulb? Only one, but it takes him three days to do it.