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UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

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381–390 of 399 posts

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#381

I’ve been using UPI since its very early days when it used to fail quite often. UPI is still one of the best things to happen in the financial scene in India. However, these days, personally, I’m trying to reduce it to either known people, or established institutions. I wish there is another layer of tokenization when one pays via UPI, like how Apple Pay does. I wish that the transaction is obfuscated and the phone n…

>I wish that the transaction is obfuscated and the phone numbers and/or UPI ID are hidden.

You can create a Private UPI ID it's supported on PayTM. Your phone number is not revealed when you send / receive payments.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#382
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> of course, if you take the QR codes out of the equation and replace with NFC then i see no issues. There’s no reason p2p payments can’t operate over NFC. It’s just a short distance communication technology, it’s little more than an implementation detail in a payment network, and not significant to fundamental operation or economics of a payment network. The fact Mastercard/Visa have a monopoly on NFC payments on ph…

> why would anyone want to pay a middleman for a service their bank can provide directly, and provide much cheaper? Visitors can show up and immediately pay for things with ease, for one.

There’s no reason why alternatives won’t achieve the same ubiquity in the future. The EU has already built the common infrastructure that makes inter-county bank transfers instant and seamless. Honestly only Americans seem to struggle with the idea that companies like Visa/Mastercard/Paypal/Venmo are just symptoms of a dysfunctional banking system, not some incredibly new and innovative way to move money.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#383
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only fundamental difference inherent to the respective designs of blockchains and traditional banking, is censorship resistance through genuine self-custody. The former is designed to provide this quality, and the latter is not. Put another way, there is nothing inherently scammy in using a distributed blockchain to record balances, and cryptography to authenticate updates to the balances. While opening the door…

> is censorship resistance through genuine self-custody. https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2018/04/05/debunking-bu... > Ordinary person: “Your weird Internet money sucks to use. It’s slow and expensive. I lost my coins by mistake and it can’t be fixed. If I get hacked it can’t be fixed either.” > Bitcoin advocate: “But everyone wants [list of ideological aims held only by weird people]! Everyone I know, anyway.” B…

Being slow and expensive doesn't make something a scam. If you falsely label the blockchain as a scam, and want people to not have even the option of using, I contend that your real issue is with people having self-custody over their money, and thus you believe in a modern form of serfdom.

All your sophistry aside that is.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#384
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only fundamental difference inherent to the respective designs of blockchains and traditional banking, is censorship resistance through genuine self-custody. The former is designed to provide this quality, and the latter is not. Put another way, there is nothing inherently scammy in using a distributed blockchain to record balances, and cryptography to authenticate updates to the balances. While opening the door…

To be frank, only an extreme minority cares about censorship resistance, especially when it comes in a form of inconvenience. In the last 10 years, we’ve seen again and again even within cryptoheads, the choice of storing their money in a centralized place (Binance, Coinbase, FTX) rather than self-custody. It’s just people have limited amount of time in a day, and caring that government X can trace their transaction…

A huge proportion of crypto is self-custodied. The important point is that with crypto, people have an option of self-custodying, in a form of convenient, secure and useful than physical commodities.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#385
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only fundamental difference inherent to the respective designs of blockchains and traditional banking, is censorship resistance through genuine self-custody. The former is designed to provide this quality, and the latter is not. Put another way, there is nothing inherently scammy in using a distributed blockchain to record balances, and cryptography to authenticate updates to the balances. While opening the door…

Most of what you wrote presumes anonymity. In long lived immutable digital systems, guess what, that doesn't exist. Talk to your actual scientist cousins, crypto-graphers. If we're at the "totalitarian government" stage, "easily readable immutable data source" is EXACTLY what they'd dream of.

Even without anonymity, it raises the cost for the government to enforce broad restrictions, because the chokepoints—which are intermediaries like financial institutions—are gone.

In any case, anonymity is a gradient. It's a question of how much resources a state has to expend to track a user, and that value can be increased with better privacy technology, so that the state has to eschew broad-based restrictions on mutually voluntary interactions and focus its investigative resources on only the most dangerous actors, who engage in genuinely predatory behavior (murderers, thieves, etc).

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly, that ban would be harder to enforce without centralized intermediaries that can be deputized to blacklist the dissidents. Second, it is politically and generally legally easier to prohibit a class of interactions involving a subset of the population (e.g. those who refused to be vaccinated against COVID) by way of prohibiting intermediaries from interacting with them. So for instance, restaurants were prohib…

The war on drugs doesn’t stop people from using drugs yet many people are in prison because of drugs. If cost was a reason not to do it, most drugs would have been decriminalized and effectively made legal decades ago. Meth is not a legal currency you can use to exchange with your average store so despite that being an anonymous decentralized “transaction”, almost no one would make it. Substitute meth with bitcoin an…

>>The war on drugs doesn’t stop people from using drugs yet many people are in prison because of drugs.

Governments can engage in broad based prohibitions that affect large subsections of the population, but they are less likely to do that than imposing restrictions on smaller subsets of the population who constitutes chokepoints through which a much larger number of people can be prevented from engaging in an interaction.

Earlier I made the point that:

The administrative and political cost of imposing authoritarian policies increases in proportion to the size of the set of parties that need to have their actions restricted to effectively enforce the policy.

That does not imply that growing the size of the minimal set of parties whose actions need to be restricted for the state to successfully repress a class of interactions guarantees that that class of interactions will not be repressed. It means that fewer governments, in fewer contexts, will pursue a prohibition, as the size of that set grows.

If you're looking for a silver bullet that guarantees a people will live free of tyranny, then the blockchain is not it. It is just one of many institutions that counteract the tendency toward repression. And that's the best any institution can ever be.

>>The solution to, the government is extrajudicially spying on our transactions and without due process blocking people from their finances, is not a system that uses an immutable public ledger. It’s reforming the law to protect people’s right to privacy and due process. It’s getting rid of the authoritarian government that strips people of their rights and freedoms.

The solution is to pursue both. When the political track fails, a non-political check on the power of the state—like wide adoption of cash—can potentially save a people from greater levels of tyranny.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#387

Many countries have a single dominant privately owned e-cash system. The only alternative to a future with centralized financial systems, where the individual's right to transact won't be at the total mercy of the whims of forces they don't control (e.g. a corporation which deems their credit risk as unacceptably high, a political zeitgeist that deems their unwillingness to get vaccinated as making them deserving fin…

It might have been a marginally acceptable argument 5 years back. Not anymore. the Winkelvii have redobuled the image of the charlatans they are, alongside every single person I have ever encountered in my life or in media who promulgated crypto bs. I have long since been successfully using crypto advocacy as a way to avoid people I should just not bother with and have been living a happy life.

To me the argument has gotten dramatically stronger over the last five years as crypto's real world utility has grown and its full potential has come closer to being realized, while increasingly mainstream figures—including the most successful venture capitalists of this generation—acknowledge its inherent utility.

The anti-crypto contigent are consistently small-minded neurotic individuals who could be safely ignored if they did not back repressive government measures like futile COVID lockdowns, or a "War on Drugs" or "War on Crypto".

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#388

I’ve been using UPI since its very early days when it used to fail quite often. UPI is still one of the best things to happen in the financial scene in India. However, these days, personally, I’m trying to reduce it to either known people, or established institutions. I wish there is another layer of tokenization when one pays via UPI, like how Apple Pay does. I wish that the transaction is obfuscated and the phone n…

You can create a virtual Id to protect phone number

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UPI is not free and people should really stop parroting that talking point. It is free, FOR NOW. There are plans in place to charge a 1.1% fee for transactions to merchants. The indian government claims that there will be savings via banks handling less cash but it provided exactly zero in the way of calculations, estimates or data. In 2022, the indian digital payment industry expected a net loss of around 60 million…

UPI is absolutely free. If and when it's charged then then you can say it's not free. Until then people should stop parroting lies. Really what a stupid statement!.

UPI is already not free as of 01 April 2023 for merchant transactions above Rs 2,000. Please, don't lie about easily verifiable facts.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#390
post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great for you, but most countries don't have Maestro so no luck in Sweden. And no, Mastercard does not work nearly as well.

I think Swedish banks issue MasterCard or Visa as their standard debit cards, so it seems to me that it should work (although I didn’t have reason to try it when I was there). See e.g.: https://www.swedbank.se/en/private/cards-and-payment/debit-c... https://www.handelsbanken.se/en/personal/accounts-cards-and-... https://www.nordea.se/privat/produkter/kreditkort-bankkort/n...

Nordea -> issues Visa Electron. That is not the same as regular Visa!

Swedbank -> issues Maestro, https://www.swedbank.se/privat/kort/bankkort/bankkort-maestr... (yes, the English page lists only a quarter of the available ones)

Handelsbanken -> issues Maestro, scroll down a bit

I was there a few year ago with both Mastercard and Visa in my pocket and the success rate was 60-70% for that combination (i.e. some one third of the places would not accept either). But steadily improving.

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