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TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

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Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#381

Post by martin8412 »

coliveira wrote: post #163
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US has been talking about bombing TSMC themselves[] The U.S. said nothing of the sort. One Congressman, in the minority no less, did.

You can say this about any US policy, until it is officially announced. It turns out that the US gov has made all the moves to weaponize Taiwan and make it the center of a war against China, so what is the surprise that they will bomb Taiwan if needed?

Because of the geography of Taiwan, the idea is to turn Taiwan into a porcupine. Make it prohibitively expensive and deadly to try and invade. Taiwan armed to the teeth with modern American weaponry will go a long way to accomplish that.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#382

Post by Strom »

jupp0r wrote: post #362
Panoramix wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've witnessed visiting Indian colleagues of mine being threatened on the street for having dark skin and racist demonstrations are a weekly occurrence. So, like the US?

The US is a very homogeneous country. I live in a very liberal part of it. There are probably places with similar problems although I can't name any. Can you?

I've heard Harrison, Arkansas as an example.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison,_Arkansas

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltmlvk9GAto

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#383

Post by mschuster91 »

blueflow wrote: post #378
mschuster91 wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person I replied to was talking about Muslim immigrants to Germany, which our far-right blames for being anti-LGBT.

No, i was giving a hint that parent was fearmongering, which i consider to be some bad thing. So i paralleled it with the fearmongering of the AfD because i think everyone agrees that this is bad. And you backed them up with even more fearmongering. Why is a self-proclaimed antifascist using fascist methods? "Its justified when *I* do it" my ass. The AfD is problem enough, don't add to it. Bring your points across wi…

> And you backed them up with even more fearmongering.

What fearmongering?! FFS. Just look at the election results of the 2021 elections, it's not by chance that the AfD is stronger in the rural areas - they were 2nd in Straubing, which is the area where I lived.

[1] https://www.bundestagswahl2021.bayern.de/ergebnis_regierungs...

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#384

Post by rojosewe »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #351
rojosewe wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's referring to the difference in wealth between East and West Germany which is arguably the cause of many political and social issues in Germany. The influx of money into the region could reduce the disparity. My guess is that you are referring to the difference in wealth between India and Germany. I'm not sure that the pearl clutching was helpful. It would have been better to clarify your assumptions or If indeed…

> The influx of money into the region could reduce the disparity. Money in the region would help but I don't see it happening since Poland is just a few km away and a more lucrative target for attracting investments from west Germany due to having less red tape, and lower taxes and regulations. East Germany can't compete with that so it seems it be forever be this "desert" in between west Germany and Poland where nob…

This post is literally about building a "large" factory for highly specialized workers in East Germany. The influx will be there, whether that's enough to solve the issue it's a different topic. Anyway, I was referring to the original commenter's intention, not my personal opinion.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#385

Post by blueflow »

mschuster91 wrote: post #383
blueflow wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, i was giving a hint that parent was fearmongering, which i consider to be some bad thing. So i paralleled it with the fearmongering of the AfD because i think everyone agrees that this is bad. And you backed them up with even more fearmongering. Why is a self-proclaimed antifascist using fascist methods? "Its justified when *I* do it" my ass. The AfD is problem enough, don't add to it. Bring your points across wi…

> And you backed them up with even more fearmongering. What fearmongering?! FFS. Just look at the election results of the 2021 elections, it's not by chance that the AfD is stronger in the rural areas - they were 2nd in Straubing, which is the area where I lived. [1] https://www.bundestagswahl2021.bayern.de/ergebnis_regierungs...

This is my problem with you, your focus is entirely on the baddies, and not whether your behavior makes you one of them. Be better.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#386

Post by the_third_wave »

Herring wrote: post #324
flo123456 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still living here I must point out that you are pointing an equally one sided picture. While all of what you say is true and problematic, there are people from all over the world living in Dresden and some parts (especially Neustadt) are politically rather left leaning.

That's not how it works. There can be a lot of good people, but all you need is one in-your-face racist encounter to ruin your decade. It's like how even a rumor of a shark will keep you firmly on the beach.

[flagged]

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#387

Post by outside1234 »

jupp0r wrote: post #227
dav_Oz wrote: post #178

For those unfamiliar with the region (Saxony, Dresden): A registered association ( e.V. in German) bluntly named "Silicon Saxony e.V." (est. in 2000) with over 450 members headquartered in Dresden pretty much sums up the infrastructure and ambition.[0][1] As pointed out the process TSMC’s 28/22 nanometer planar CMOS and 16/12 nanometer FinFET process technology (fabrication will begin in 2027) is not "cutting edge" b…

Having lived there for a decade, I must point out that you are painting a very one sided picture of the region. It's also a hot spot for Germany's populist right. I've witnessed visiting Indian colleagues of mine being threatened on the street for having dark skin and racist demonstrations are a weekly occurrence. I eventually moved away (among other reasons) because I didn't want my kids to grow up in this environme…

Isn't this a rampant problem across Europe thought?

I went on a beach vacation with some French friends and was sort of stunned/apalled at the sort of non-stop "it is all the muslim/immigrants" fault talk.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#388

Post by FirmwareBurner »

rojosewe wrote: post #384
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The influx of money into the region could reduce the disparity. Money in the region would help but I don't see it happening since Poland is just a few km away and a more lucrative target for attracting investments from west Germany due to having less red tape, and lower taxes and regulations. East Germany can't compete with that so it seems it be forever be this "desert" in between west Germany and Poland where nob…

This post is literally about building a "large" factory for highly specialized workers in East Germany. The influx will be there, whether that's enough to solve the issue it's a different topic. Anyway, I was referring to the original commenter's intention, not my personal opinion.

>The influx will be there, whether that's enough to solve the issue it's a different topic.

It's not. I've seen this play out before in my poor home town that become a hotspot for tech investments in the span of 10 years.

All those new jobs in the semi industry will require some skills and education, and people who have that kind of skills and education, are (usually) not racists to attack people on the streets based on their color and go to racist protests, but the contrary, tend to be well spoken and liberal.

It will simply increase the inequality between the uneducated racist locals and the well educated foreigners who come for those well paying jobs and raise rent prices and cost of living, throwing more fuel on the racist fire, and pointing the target on the foreigners for being to blame for making life more expensive for the locals.

This issue is solved through education and career re-orientation opportunities, not by bringing some high end jobs that are out of reach for those locals anyway.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#389

Post by mapgrep »

PicassoCTs wrote: post #337
coryfklein wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In How Asia Works[0], they contrast how Malaysia tried to modernize by jumping straight to high-tech steel factoris with how South Korea modernized by starting small – basically by making shitty cars – then scaled their way up. Turns out the latter simply works much better. My take, if you want to have a bleeding edge semiconductor industry in your country, first start by trying to build a boring, vanilla, outdated s…

Ahistoric nonsense. Its just that south-Korea is at a empire gradient. One empire borders another empire. Which either means you gets you eternal proxy wars - or you get propped up, by the competition of the empires and can milk that sweet soft-power gradient for benefits. You get preferable trade-agreements, even if you use protectionism. You get other sweet deals. Look at all the countries who made it, dwelling alo…

No comparison between the excellent economic growth of South Korea and that of Greece, Hungary, Austria, or Italy going back to either cold war or post cold war days, despite this hypothesis of "empire gradient". If you google "World Bank GDP growth " you can find charts back to 1961.

South Korea exports consumer goods to the large US market, this has been a massive fuel for their growth. They followed in Japan's footsteps (and China, for a time at least, followed in theirs). I can't think of a single manufactured product out of Greece, Hungary, Austria and few from Italy to the US.

Being on an "empire gradient" is just an arbitrary way to look at a country.

You know who else is on an empire gradient? North Korea. Afghanistan. Belarus. You're not even specifying which side of the empire gradient. Maybe being on the authoritarian, communist side did not work out so well for many countries?

I think what matters for South Korea is moving steadily toward more democratic governance, embracing capitalism, and proximity and historic ties with Japan (not always pleasant, obviously, but ties nonetheless) at a time when Japan was developing robust trade with the US and when Japan's own consumer sector was booming, providing another market for Korean firms.

Korea has absolutely followed the pattern of moving steadily up the value chain, for example in consumer electronics, in autos.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#390

Post by tetha »

sergiotapia wrote: post #297
UncleOxidant wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having so much reliance on advanced semiconductors from an island that's potentially going to be invaded by China doesn't seem like a great plan for the US and Europe. It absolutely makes sense for both the US and Europe to incentivize production in their own countries to diversify. If the fabs in Taiwan were to be damaged without building up this domestic capability we'd have a tough time defending Taiwan after a wh…

It's game theory no? Having this beefy reliance on a small island that gives china the middle finger -OR- derisk the reliance on taiwan

I don't think it's that simple, because the effort necessary to employ the different choices are very different.

Stopping cargo going out of Taiwan is rather cheap. Unguided rockets and aircraft from your homeland can do a lot. And then they just have to defend near their home land while waiting for their opponent to run out of resources.

At the same time, as we can see here, it takes 4 years to go from acre to functional fab plant after planning and negotiations. And any kind of war to regain control of the chip supply lane is a significant drain on the chips and systems reliant on the chips you have.

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