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Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

theatlantic.com

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Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#381

Post by MisterTea »

michaelteter wrote: post #342

I don't even have to read the article. The US military is, if anything, serious about understanding cause and effect. They studied and learned about drug addiction during and after the Viet Nam war. What they found might seem counterintuitive. Addicted soldiers could break the habit easily once they returned home. Of course this is an oversimplification, but the idea is that circumstance has a lot to do with behavior…

> Of course this is an oversimplification, but the idea is that circumstance has a lot to do with behavior.

This is why rehab clinics seemingly "work" - you remove the person from the environment driving them to seek refuge from reality. They relapse very easily once back in the same situation that got them addicted in the first place.

Ive experienced it myself on a vacation during an addiction long ago: I was not worried about my situation, I had positive people around me and we did fun things. During that time I realized I had no interest in being high but felt the withdrawal so I wound up dosing as little as possible just so I wasn't jonesing. I realized breaking the addiction meant making life changes which weren't easy but I managed to get over it.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#382

Post by polski-g »

epolanski wrote: post #296
ecshafer wrote: post #149

Supporting legalization / decriminalization of hard drugs is a luxury belief. If you’re in a nice rich circle it’s easy to believe it doesn’t harm anyone except yourself. If you are around people that become drug addicts, it becomes apparent that it drastically harms everyone around them, themselves probably not the most. You can only see so many addict parents throw away the money for kids food, or pawn of their kid…

Delusional. The drug that kills and ruins most lives on the planet is alcohol followed by food (diabetes). And the abuse of alcohol and food has the same root that drug abuse does: mental health and education. And let's not even start talking about the damage of legal drugs (medicines) on society at all age tiers.

Per capita?

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#384

Post by michaelteter »

plantwallshoe wrote: post #363
michaelteter wrote: post #342

I don't even have to read the article. The US military is, if anything, serious about understanding cause and effect. They studied and learned about drug addiction during and after the Viet Nam war. What they found might seem counterintuitive. Addicted soldiers could break the habit easily once they returned home. Of course this is an oversimplification, but the idea is that circumstance has a lot to do with behavior…

Right, in Vietnam soldiers could use with relative impunity. In the US they would be jailed or socially ostracized. The circumstances changed such that there were serious consequences for doing drugs, and many were able to get off them when presented with consequences. Removing consequences for antisocial levels of drug use does nothing to encourage people to get clean.

Not at all, at least not from what I read a few years ago about this. The war situation there was frankly unfathomable to us privileged folk. Beside the obvious physical pain and injuries there were psychological influences which are normally so far removed from our lives that we cannot deal with them. Drugs are an escape from the physical injuries and pain, and then they turn out to be an escape from the mental awareness.

Shooting at other humans, killing them, is not something we are designed psychologically to handle. But obviously if you feel you must kill another to avoid being killed, you may do it. And then your mind must reconcile that memory. Drugs can help you avoid it.

The change of attitude has absolutely nothing to do with laws.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#385

Post by antihero »

tlogan wrote: post #121

I used to strongly support making drugs legal. I thought: this is a free country, you should be able to do what you want. But what I've seen in San Francisco has made me think differently. Most people who use drugs eventually end up not being able to live like normal adults. And no one willingly goes to get help or treatment. The problem will stick around because politicians care more about how things look. They'll s…

> Most people who use drugs eventually end up not being able to live like normal adults.

Most people who use drugs function like completely normal adults or eventually get bored or reduce usage as they age. You are seeing the fringes.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#386

Post by postmeta »

chimeracoder wrote: post #244
AbrahamParangi wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the war on drugs a failure in Singapore too? I mean, it is self-evidently obvious that at some level of enforcement, you can actually control the problem. The question then is whether we are willing to tolerate the level of enforcement necessary. Is the cure worse than the disease? That is a real question and a worthy one, but pretending that no tradeoff exists is just silly.

> Is the war on drugs a failure in Singapore too? Considering that thousands of people are arrested for drug possession every year in Singapore, to say nothing of the number of people who use drugs in Singapore and avoid legal action, then yes. > The question then is whether we are willing to tolerate the level of enforcement necessary. Drug use is rampant even inside prisons, which are literally the most surveilled…

A few thousand arrests for possession in Singapore is nothing compared to the USA, NYC has that many people die of drug overdose every year: https://www.snpnyc.org/opioid-crisis/ vs Singapore arrests for possession or use: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1007331/dug-abuser-numbe...

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#387

Post by mdgrech23 »

michaelteter wrote: post #342

I don't even have to read the article. The US military is, if anything, serious about understanding cause and effect. They studied and learned about drug addiction during and after the Viet Nam war. What they found might seem counterintuitive. Addicted soldiers could break the habit easily once they returned home. Of course this is an oversimplification, but the idea is that circumstance has a lot to do with behavior…

There was also a pretty famous study w/ mice I believe. One of them had a good world w/ plenty of food, plenty of toys to play with and ample people to hang out with and have sex with. They had two feeding tubes, one contained drugs and other didn't. The mouse repeatedly took the drug free version. Then they created a shit mouse world. I think it was just overcrowded and didn't have any toys or that shit they borrow in. Low and behold the mouse in the shit world chose the feeding tube w/ the drugs.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#388

Post by [deleted] »

71a54xd wrote: post #107

I recently visited Portland and is was shocking. Sad because aside from stunning homelessness and crime out in the open it's actually a beautiful quirky city. 1br luxury apts / condos are well designed and reasonably priced. Restaraunts and culture are incredible and feel deeply grounded in community - a far cry from what Austin (my home town) now considers "weird" or cool. I'd live there in a second if the state / c…

[deleted]

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#389

Post by xienze »

brightlancer wrote: post #186

Rubbish. Folks made the exact same arguments about alcohol and marijuana. Specifically with alcohol, anyone can walk into a treatment center without fear that they'll be arrested for the mere _use_ of a substance. (Marijuana has very low risk and rates of addiction, physical or psychological.) If "hard" drugs are legalized, then they will likely be treated the same as alcohol and pot and tobacco: highly regulated, so…

> Specifically with alcohol, anyone can walk into a treatment center without fear that they'll be arrested for the mere _use_ of a substance.

Are you under the impression that cities like SF, Portland, Seattle etc. were arresting drug users who went to treatment centers at any point in the last 20 years or so? Ever heard of methadone clinics?

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#390

Post by unethical_ban »

whycome wrote: post #323
tlogan wrote: post #121

I used to strongly support making drugs legal. I thought: this is a free country, you should be able to do what you want. But what I've seen in San Francisco has made me think differently. Most people who use drugs eventually end up not being able to live like normal adults. And no one willingly goes to get help or treatment. The problem will stick around because politicians care more about how things look. They'll s…

I support making drugs legal. But, it also requires an extensive framework around that legalization. Social supports. Information. Safety nets/healthcare. Without that, it's gonna fails.

I'll pick your comment out of the pack to pick on, though I think we agree.

Yours, and dozens of others, talk about "drugs".

That's like talking about banning "food" when there is a problem with people eating five cheeseburgers a day.

---

The problem is not with cannabis, or mushrooms, or aspirin. It's with meth, heroin, fentanyl, and prescription opioids.

Drugs need to be *properly* ranked by government and restricted accordingly.

* How easy is it to acutely overdose on a substance?

* How chemically addictive is the substance?

* How damaging is chronic use of the drug over time to the body and mind?

* Is there any medical benefit?

The fact that cannabis is federally ranked as the most controlled level of drug in the US shows we have a broken system.

I support the legalization/decriminalization of many drugs too, but our Congress, the Biden administration and the DEA are too inept or corrupt to make reform a priority.

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