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Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

arstechnica.com

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Re: Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Repeal of section 230. Remember when they brought all the CEOs to testify in front of congress?

"they" didn't. a GOP-controlled congress did, and that party remains the most opposed to section 230

Democrats have threatened it as well: "Democrats Want To Hold Social Media Companies Responsible For Health Misinformation"

Co-sponsored by Democratic Senators Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota and Ben Ray Luján of New Mexico, the Health Misinformation Act targets a provision in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, which protects platforms from being held liable for what their users post in most cases.

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/22/1019346177/democrats-want-to-...

It's obvious government infringement on free speech from both sides when you take off your red or blue colored glasses.

Re: Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is anyone on the right arguing for any speech restriction? If so, they are by far the minority in that camp. Only one side is afraid of open debate and pure freedom of speech. Why could that be?

Kind of - crack downs on "obscenity" always come from the right and rarely if ever from the left. For the most part, everybody seems to agree than "obscenity" should be an exception to freedom of speech, although there's quite a bit of disagreement on what constitutes it.

I disagree. At most you'll see parents deciding that their tax dollars should not be used to stock a school library with "obscene" books in schools. That is not an infringement on speech, those authors are free to publish and sell in any other market.

Re: Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

#384
I wanted to point out several factual issues with this ruling, some of which I mentioned yesterday on another post. For starters, the judge severely misquotes an email:

>However, various emails show Plaintiffs are likely to succeed on the merits through evidence that the motivation of the NIAID Defendants was a “take down” of protected free speech. Dr. Francis Collins, in an email to Dr. Fauci told Fauci there needed to be a “quick and devastating take down” of the GBD—the result was exactly that.

In reality, the email[0] actually said this:

>There needs to be a quick and devastating published takedown of its premises. I don't see anything like that online yet - is it underway?

Notice how he removed the word "published" from his quote, making it seem like an instruction to a social media company rather than a published rebuttal. He also mischaracterizes a WH aide's email to FB, claiming that the aid accused FB "of causing 'political violence' by failing to censor false COVID-19 claims", when in actuality he was referring to a WSJ article that detailed actual calls to violence on the platform[1].

He also characterizes Twitter's removal of an account with the handle "AnthonyFauci_" as government-directed censorship of parody:

> NIAID and NIH staff sent several messages to social-media platforms asking them to remove content lampooning or criticizing Dr. Fauci . . . An HHS official then asked Twitter if it could “block” similar parody accounts...

But in reality, the contact was initiated by Twitter, who asked the CDC whether the account was real or fake[2]. Why were they confused about this? Because the account wasn't a parody at all; its name was "Dr. Anthony Fauci", its bio was "Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases #NIAID", and there was nothing parodic about its tweets[3][4], which purported to be giving out factual info; it was a straight up impersonation.

On the subject of Dr. Fauci, there's a particularly egregious section where the judge accuses him and other members of NIAID of 'censoring' the so-called Great Barrington Declaration. To support his claim that Reddit and Google censored the GBD at the government's behest, he cites an article[5] that describes how Reddit mods (not Reddit the company!) took down links to the GBD, and complains about the top Google search results for the GBD were all disparaging it, without providing any evidence that either NIAID instructed Google to change the results, or even any evidence that Google purposely changed the results at all. His accusation is that Fauci made public statements 'in collusion' with another employee

>Dr. Fauci testified “it’s possible that” he coordinated with Dr. Collins on his public statements attacking the GBD.

Disparaging the GBD, and that Google and these individual mods in turn took independent action against it. So I guess PSAs are censorship?

Needless to say, there's a lot of issues with this injunction, and from just the small sections I've looked at, it doesn't seem like the judge has applied the necessary rigor to justify a nationwide injunction restricting the government from nearly all contact with various companies and nonprofits. I kind of wish Ars Technics had done some of this scrutiny (which really didn't take that long) before publishing this article.

[0]https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/12/18/23/51969841-10324873...

[1]https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=36619117

[2]https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.lawd.18...

[3]https://twitter.com/merrymanlab/status/1239321484297998336

[4]http://web.archive.org/web/20200313170022/https://twitter.co...

[5]https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.lawd.18...

Re: Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

#385

The free speech misinformation directly led to deaths of citizens. It is no different from any other speech that causes mass panic and confusion. I don't understand why this decision was allowed to become detached from reality.

You mean misinformation like the Hunter laptop story, the Wuhan lab origin - both censored and true - or do you mean Russia gate (throughly discredited, but shoved down the electorate's throat for four years?

Re: Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

#386

I wanted to point out several factual issues with this ruling, some of which I mentioned yesterday on another post. For starters, the judge severely misquotes an email: >However, various emails show Plaintiffs are likely to succeed on the merits through evidence that the motivation of the NIAID Defendants was a “take down” of protected free speech. Dr. Francis Collins, in an email to Dr. Fauci told Fauci there needed…

This new crop of politicians in robes seem to be worse than the rest. I’d expect this kind of malpractice from Fox News Channel, not the federal judiciary.

Re: Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rights apply to people not the govt lol Edit: Amazing, a perfect factual comment is downvoted.

I'm just saying there are times where you may want the government to be able to express opinions....

A government doesn't "express opinions" they "enact policy."

Re: Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

#388

These are private platforms. They can censor whatever speech they want. They decide whether to listen to big bad government with an axe over its head or simply get their head cut off, right? I mean, they could have just chosen to be crushed with legal battles from the government, right? Free speech and free will in America, right?

I'd rather the platforms be treated as common carriers - unable to censor by themselves. Corporations having the right to censor is no better than the government. It would fix a lot of misalignment in terms of advertiser spend, too. In a common carrier world, the government censoring private individuals would go against our first amendment rights. Pretty clear cut. Ideally we eventually reach p2p social networking pr…

I'd rather the platforms be treated as common carriers

That's called the internet.

Corporations having the right to censor is no better than the government.

Yes it is, there are lots of corporations and anyone can start one. There is only one government that applies to someone at any one time and they have a monopoly on violence.

In a common carrier world, the government censoring private individuals would go against our first amendment rights. Pretty clear cut.

It's clear cut that the internet does that already and corporations do not have to broadcast what they don't want to.

If you hate censorship so much why are you on hacker news? This is one of the most censored sites on the internet. Comments are not just deleted and removed but there is no record when they are.

There are plenty of sites that let anyone post whatever they want and they turn into people spamming nazi propaganda. You can find these sites and see if you like them better than the mainstream sites of the internet.

Re: Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but what you don’t see is the many many requests in the same tone that come into social media (and traditional media!) companies from corporations, celebrities, even regular old citizens who are mad their drunk driving arrest got reported (for example). The idea that an imperious tone somehow proves a power imbalance is hilarious to anyone who has ever been on the receiving end of these requests from regular peop…

This is not talking about "regular old citizens". This is the government and the government has power. Your comment is basically a Straw man.

No, the point of the comment is that the government didn't have power in this situation.

Re: Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Opinion Pages of the WSJ also tend to lean more conservative, while the news side leans liberal. As with most News Corp outlets, the news side of the WSJ leans pretty far to the right (it did so even before it was a News Corp outlet, though not as much), it only seems “liberal” by comparison with its own opinion section. That said, unlike, say, Fox News, the WSJ news side at least makes an effort to adhere to t…

[flagged]

"leans far to the right" is not the same as "is far right"

> Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

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