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Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

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Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#381

Post by chii »

gcampos wrote: post #79
jasonjmcghee wrote: post #26

Why editorialize? "Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore" Your title changes the meaning- they didn't ban games afaict. It's also a misleading post, as it's specifically GenAI where authors can't prove or don't have rights to content. If you use ProcGen etc or have full rights to the data used, I can't imagine there would be any issues.

> we cannot ship your game while it contains these AI-generated assets, unless you can affirmatively confirm that you own the rights to all of the IP used in the data set that trained the AI to create the assets in your game. Yep, you are absolutely right.

> you can affirmatively confirm that you own the rights to all of the IP used in the data set that trained the AI

i think valve is over reaching with this policy.

It should be that you need to prove the art used in the game itself that does not breach any copyright. The tool used to create said art has no bearing on the final art with regards to copyright.

Otherwise, would valve also have mentioned that the developer should also produce evidence of their photoshop license/subscription (if they used photoshop in the course of making their game)? Do they need to check that the version of windows being used to make the game is a licensed one?

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#382

Post by Zuiii »

A moronic policy if true:

1. Copyright Office made it clear that AI generated output is generally not copyrightable irrespective of training data: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/03/16/2023-05...

2. In fact, there is credible legal theory that goes as far as to conclude that training dataset license cannot effect the resulting weights under US law (EU's take on copyright make it less clear)

3. DMCA already provides Valve with legal cover in the unlikely event that training dataset license is somehow found to effect the IP rights of generated content.

4. By adopting this policy, they are acting more as a traditional publisher rather than a platform, thus exposing themselves to even more liabilities not less.

This policy makes no sense to me no matter how I look at it.

The harsh reality that Valve and everyone else needs to accept is that AI-generated content from "unclear" datasets is here to stay. People need to accept this fact^1 and move on. I already have.

1: Copyright is an incredibly limited, obsolete, broken invention that was never meant to handle concepts like this. It's very much like a poor analogy that we stubbornly insist on applying to situations were it simply does not fit. We will continue to find ourselves arriving to bizarre and nonsensical conclusions like this as long as we continue holding onto this broken invention. Reward authors in another way. Placing arbitrary limitations on information was never the right way to do it.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#383

Post by soerxpso »

chii wrote: post #381
gcampos wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we cannot ship your game while it contains these AI-generated assets, unless you can affirmatively confirm that you own the rights to all of the IP used in the data set that trained the AI to create the assets in your game. Yep, you are absolutely right.

> you can affirmatively confirm that you own the rights to all of the IP used in the data set that trained the AI i think valve is over reaching with this policy. It should be that you need to prove the art used in the game itself that does not breach any copyright. The tool used to create said art has no bearing on the final art with regards to copyright. Otherwise, would valve also have mentioned that the developer…

> The tool used to create said art has no bearing on the final art with regards to copyright.

This is still an open question with regards to AI art generation tools. Do you have recent legal precedent to cite that I don't know about, or are you just making things up?

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#384

Post by Zetobal »

XCSme wrote: post #84
kemayo wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm quoting the relevant bit from Valve's email in the reddit post, to indicate exactly what they're actually forbidding. Notably: not all AI-generated content, but rather AI-generated content from models that were trained on material that's not owned by the person submitting the game.

Can that even be proven/tested?

Most sd guis save the generational data in the final pngs as default. The metadata includes the model hash. The model can be easily checked against a data from civit or hugging face.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#386

Post by __loam »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #379
__loam wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, thanks to AI being able to learn and determine where brush strokes would land, we take advancements from 3D printers and your desktop painting rig picks up a brush and paints it just as the artist would have. Good luck convincing enough people in the art community to give you data on their process so you can do this. There's definitely enough out there in things like PSD files but the AI community has been so…

Why would you assume it would need to be given? If you examine a painting with enough care, you could work out a few brush strokes. Now hand that to an AI that can process everything and come up with a style and how to paint it. If you are making a thing, there is evidence of how it was made. Patten match enough of it and you’re done.

All right, so you're building a robot to do art forgery.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#387

Post by chii »

soerxpso wrote: post #383
chii wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can affirmatively confirm that you own the rights to all of the IP used in the data set that trained the AI i think valve is over reaching with this policy. It should be that you need to prove the art used in the game itself that does not breach any copyright. The tool used to create said art has no bearing on the final art with regards to copyright. Otherwise, would valve also have mentioned that the developer…

> The tool used to create said art has no bearing on the final art with regards to copyright. This is still an open question with regards to AI art generation tools. Do you have recent legal precedent to cite that I don't know about, or are you just making things up?

> This is still an open question with regards to AI art generation tools.

While it is an unanswered question with no legal precedence, i am a believer that what isn't currently illegal is and should be considered legal, until harm has been shown and thus require legal ruling.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#389

Post by cwkoss »

asdff wrote: post #234
crazygringo wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're on the cusp of a profound content shovelware crisis. No, we've been inundated with low-quality content for decades now. This is nothing new. Fortunately, ratings and reviews and popularity have always been an extremely effective antidote. Even if 99% of stuff on a platform is total crap, nobody cares. It's a non-issue. Whether you're talking about music, books, TV shows, or whatever. The 1% rises to the top a…

>No, we've been inundated with low-quality content for decades now. This is nothing new. Trends matter too. If it gets to be an order of magnitude cheaper to shill your products on social media and forums, set up seo crap articles to phish users from search results, or churn out good old fashioned email scams, then expect an order of magnitude worse signal to noise ratio on the internet as a result. There could be a…

Yeah that happened 10 years ago

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#390

Post by devwastaken »

jasonjmcghee wrote: post #26

Why editorialize? "Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore" Your title changes the meaning- they didn't ban games afaict. It's also a misleading post, as it's specifically GenAI where authors can't prove or don't have rights to content. If you use ProcGen etc or have full rights to the data used, I can't imagine there would be any issues.

It's not valves job to police game assets. If it were then they should be removing plenty of other games. They don't, because they don't look and don't care. This is yet again more AIphobia.

Under u.s. law you don't need to prove rights for content used in this way. It's transformative and does not replicate the heart of the originals work, therefore it's protected under fair use. AI generated content cannot be copyrighted, so they cannot claim ownership regardless.

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