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Ted Kaczynski has died

nytimes.com

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Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#381
post #31

His manifesto is worth reading. Although he was obviously a twisted man many of his predictions for the future were eerily prescient. http://editions-hache.com/essais/pdf/kaczynski2.pdf

I don't suppose anyone has a short summary?

There is a section "The Future" which talks about Artificial Intelligence (AI):

The author postulates that if computer scientists develop intelligent machines that can do all things better than humans, all work will be done by machines and no human effort will be necessary.

There are two possibilities: either the machines make all their own decisions without human oversight or human control over the machines is retained.

173. If machines _are_ allowed to make all their own decisions, it is impossible to predict the outcome and the fate of the human race would be at the mercy of the machines. The author suggests that society may become so dependent on machines that it would have no practical choice but to accept all of their decisions, eventually leading to a stage where machines are in effective control and turning them off would amount to suicide.

174. If human control over machines is _retained_, the average person may have control over certain private machines, but control over large systems of machines will be in the hands of a tiny elite. The elite will have greater control over the masses and because human work will no longer be necessary, the masses will be superfluous.

If computer scientists do not succeed in developing artificial intelligence and human work remains necessary, machines will still take care of simpler tasks resulting in an increasing surplus of human workers at lower levels of ability. Employed workers will face ever-increasing demands and will need more training, ability and conformity. Their tasks will be increasingly specialized and out of touch with the real world.

The author envisions scenarios where machines take over most important work while humans are kept busy with relatively unimportant work in the service industries, which the author finds contemptible.

The author acknowledges that the outlined scenarios do not exhaust all possibilities but indicates that if the industrial-technological system survives the next 40 to 100 years, individuals will be more dependent on large organizations and their physical and mental qualities will be engineered into them.

Technology is creating a new physical and social environment for humans that is radically different from the environments to which natural selection has adapted the human race and humans will either be adjusted to this new environment by being artificially re-engineered or through natural selection.

179. The author concludes that it would be better to dump the whole system and take the consequences.

(That was all summarized by ChatGPT. I have removed concluding sentences from some paragraphs containing deeply pessimistic motives of insubordination, enslavement, and extermination)

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#382
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He sounds like an ecofascist to me, someone willing to use violence in pursuit of a "green" ideology.

Funnily, Kaczynski was an ecofascist, he was also an anti-leftest. You have to remember that when he performed the bombing in the 70s environmental protections had bipartisan support (Nixon famously created the EPA [1]). It wasn't until much later that being green turned into a radical partisan issue. I mostly blame Rush Limbaugh [2] and the Koch brothers [3] for that shift. Turns out, a lot of big oil propaganda [4]…

Plugging in my (tongue-in-cheek, but maybe not a 100%) conspiracy theory that Big Oil was the financier and culprit behind the flat earth, anti-vax, moon landing conspiracies, and many others -

As a way to discret the whole of the scientific and academic establishment in the minds of enough (voting) people, so as to delay the inevitable consensus that fossil fuel consumption is killing everyone slowly

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#383

One of my good friend’s dad was brutally murdered by Kaczynski when she was a young teenager. A small bomb in a package that used razor blazes, nails, and other bits of metal to nearly tear his head off while his young family was in the house with him. And it turns out the victim was the “wrong” man, as he didn’t even work on the project Kaczynski wanted to bring “retribution” for. Kaczynski May have said some intere…

Thanks for posting. Far too much support and excusing of a deranged murderer in these comments.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#384
post #345
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why is funny agreeing with selected quotes while not agreeing with others.

would you still stand by your point if the quote came from (extreme case) Adolf Hitler? if the answer is no... there you go.

This doesn't seem like the tough question you think it is. I assume Hitler had some opinions that, taken away from the context of his goals, are reasonable to agree with. What makes you think it's an exception to the parent's point?

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was only one live bomb found and he did intend to use it. > Kaczynski replied Penthouse was less "respectable" than The New York Times and The Washington Post, and said that, "to increase our chances of getting our stuff published in some 'respectable' periodical", he would "reserve the right to plant one (and only one) bomb intended to kill, after our manuscript has been published" if Penthouse published the d…

Just because he bombed people previously doesn't mean he intended to do it again. You have to have stronger evidence, like writings or postage stamps, to prove beyond reasonable doubt that these two bombs were going to be planted. (I'm not arguing this evidence doesn't exist.) I don't get what the big deal is. We already have more than enough evidence from his previous plantings to convict him as a bomb planter and p…

TBF, we incarcerate people like him partially because benefit of the doubt no longer applies for some crimes.

Reasonable doubt shifts based on past behavior. The parable of them scorpion is retold for a reason.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#386
post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turns out leftists love self criticism for self improvements. That’s inherently bad, right? (set aside that it often builds up to violent inner conflicts)

> Turns out leftists love self criticism for self improvements. they really don't, and this is one of the reasons why there is so much fracturing in the left, usually.

Isn't that backwards? In-group criticism is how you get so-called "fracturing", which is arguably healthier (if less politically useful) than the alternative: "loyalty". I'd be highly suspicious if any group of tens of millions of people all ostensibly agreed on everything.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#387

One of my good friend’s dad was brutally murdered by Kaczynski when she was a young teenager. A small bomb in a package that used razor blazes, nails, and other bits of metal to nearly tear his head off while his young family was in the house with him. And it turns out the victim was the “wrong” man, as he didn’t even work on the project Kaczynski wanted to bring “retribution” for. Kaczynski May have said some intere…

I don't know much about the Unabomber's victims. Where can I read about your friend's dad?

There are only 3 victims to narrow down.

edit: Only one of 3 victims was killed in his home:

> In 1994, Burson-Marsteller executive Thomas J. Mosser was killed after opening a mail bomb sent to his home in New Jersey. In a letter to The New York Times, Kaczynski wrote he had sent the bomb because of Mosser's work repairing the public image of Exxon after the Exxon Valdez oil spill.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#388
I find it deeply disturbing the number of people here who take this complete historical illiterate seriously. Seriously get some self-esteem and stop with this self-flagellating "technology is the source of all problems" bullshit.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#389
A lot of comments here talk about how terrible Kaczynski’s actions were, and I agree with them. I do wonder, though, at what point does such behavior qualify one as mentally insane? He seems fairly insane to me, and I’m not sure whether we should see him as an evil person with true agency or someone with a mental illness.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Technology bad." It's really that. He falls for the same trap many modern critics of progress do: the nostalgia for a world that never existed, when men lived meaningful lives in peaceful harmony with nature... juxtaposed with all the purported moral, societal, and environmental decay of today. Many people find it alluring today, but the themes are evergreen. They crop up in ancient Greece, in the Middle Ages, and t…

Something that blew my mind long ago was learning the scottish highlands used to be a massive forest. Ancient humans clear cut the entire landscape and it still hasn't recovered. That sort of broke the illusion of there being some forgotten past of arcadian perfection, where we lived in one and balance with nature. Humans have always been humans. Exploitative, expansionist, perfectly willing to destroy our long term…

That is post-agricultural revolution humanity. Sure it is ancient by the standards of an individual, but it is only a relatively recent and small part of the more than 100 thousand years of human pre-history.
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