381–390 of 450 posts
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But the members of a married couple are never "equal" - whatever that even means.
It seems strange to say that confidently if you don’t even know what it means.
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I'm not sure if you're implying that every single husband and wife pair is comprised of a man with more financial resources or if you're somehow convinced that divorce will always screw over a husband and benefit a wife regardless of their incomes, but either way, it sounds like whoever you think you would have married otherwise is the one who's dodging a bullet.
> it sounds like whoever you think you would have married otherwise is the one who's dodging a bullet. Thats some next level bullshit. you're saying that because I'm scared of getting into a marriage, that she's the one "who's dodging a bullet" Put another way, if a woman said she was scared of getting married, would you tell her that the man she would have married is "dodging a bullet?" obviously not, it would be an…
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Having known unhappily married and religious family (and leaving the faith myself), I can understand folks falling permanently out of love. And IMO they're likely better apart than locked in decades of fruitless trying. Anyway, thanks for sharing, and I'd agree that a frivolous marriage sounds like a pointless exercise.
Falling in or out of love is really a lot of fantasy BS though really. Disney marketing. Anyone in a long term relationship doesn’t love the other all the time, wether married or not. Marriage is about declaring to your social group and each other you’ve decided to strive and commit to something greater than yourself.
There are also selfish reasons, including boredom, finding more excitement - but not more depth - with someone else, and festering undiscussed resentment that financial and/or sexual expectations aren't being met.
If one person goes down one of those paths and refuses to even discuss it, there's not much the other person can do.
It's immature to expect a perfect glowing zero-conflict happy ever after. But it's equally immature to stay committed to something that is clearly dead and may be actively harmful to either or both partners - and perhaps the kids too, if there are any.
I’ll risk it and defend marriage to this crowd. To me getting married was about getting out of myself. As someone who got married later in life, I’d spent decades living only for myself, doing what I wanted to do when I wanted to do it. Relationships were shallow and lasted only so long as convenient. By choosing to get married and intentional build a family, I knew I was sacrificing a lot of ego and choosing to give…
It's not this crowd you should be defending against - it's the profiteers. Extraction of profits has been elevated above everything else and I feel the social contract between industry and individuals has been violated. Salaries are depressed and everything is so expensive, people need to have worked-out a decent-paying career before they consider getting married and/or kids, so people are getting married later in life, or not getting married at all because the dating pool gets shallower with age.
The societal effects of over-extracting profits are ging to be catastrophic, but short-termism is now built-in.
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> When was it not true that you could live larger without needing to support children? When most of society was agrarian and labor-oriented, more people meant more hands to do the heavy hand-work of maintaining the city. Modern automation and standardization has largely removed those benefits; a single person can operate a tractor that maintains acres of crops on an almost semi-autonomous basis, with the driver there…
Fair enough but you clearly weren’t talking about preindustrial society before.
I’ll risk it and defend marriage to this crowd. To me getting married was about getting out of myself. As someone who got married later in life, I’d spent decades living only for myself, doing what I wanted to do when I wanted to do it. Relationships were shallow and lasted only so long as convenient. By choosing to get married and intentional build a family, I knew I was sacrificing a lot of ego and choosing to give…
> I’ll risk it and defend marriage to this crowd It's not this crowd you should be defending against - it's the profiteers. Extraction of profits has been elevated above everything else and I feel the social contract between industry and individuals has been violated. Salaries are depressed and everything is so expensive, people need to have worked-out a decent-paying career before they consider getting married and/o…
In your model the causation is that profiteers caused the breakdown of marriage but we shouldn't confuse correlation with causation.
It's also plausible that the decline of marriage caused the preponderance of profiteers.
Indeed given the modern day 'profit above all else mentality' that seems to pervade many businesses thoughts these days, and the length of history of marriage, I'd say the latter is more likely.
As for dual income. I'm sorry I simply don't believe it. In my conservative Catholic circle in a high cost of living area, I'm seeing many families with almost a dozen kids where only dad is working (my wife and I included). Dad is not even a software engineer making high six figures. In many families the father's are totally normal incomes and we have a fair share of people making below average. Two incomes is a choice. There is no difference in average income between the two groups yet one has different values. One difference is the mother's are very productive amongst themselves getting things done economically.
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Marriage, apart from a nice opportunity of celebration, is a legal contract.
It's also, and perhaps primarily, a vow.
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> I’ll risk it and defend marriage to this crowd It's not this crowd you should be defending against - it's the profiteers. Extraction of profits has been elevated above everything else and I feel the social contract between industry and individuals has been violated. Salaries are depressed and everything is so expensive, people need to have worked-out a decent-paying career before they consider getting married and/o…
Marriage and family and community are historically preventative of the types of exploitative individuals and groups you talk about. In your model the causation is that profiteers caused the breakdown of marriage but we shouldn't confuse correlation with causation. It's also plausible that the decline of marriage caused the preponderance of profiteers. Indeed given the modern day 'profit above all else mentality' that…
I'm guessing those families are not living the conspicuous-consumption that has been the "new-normal" for decades now.
I'll note that it's easier to have a single-income household when you're inheriting a house from grandma, or if dad will help with the deposit for buying a property. However, if both partners are from low-/no-wealth families, they will find themselves forced to get their career on track and/or live a more modest lifestyle than their peers.
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Your own NH quote, emphasis added: “people cohabitating and acknowledging each other as husband and wife …” It’s not something that happens by accident just by cohabitation, even under that rule. Your recent PA law is in accord with my point that the rules usually require mutual intent to marry plus public presentation.
"I know I’ve seen fiction where it requires little more than cohabitation" Emphasis mine. Merely stating you're husband and wife is "little more" in my book. It's pretty easy for people to think you're married, especially if you tell people you're husband and wife to make the conversation easier.
Can’t really understand doubling down on claiming it is relevant after having the relevant issue pointed out again, but, you know, you do you.
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One benefit I feel towards being married: those visitation rights. I’ve seen others refused entrance alongside their partners in the hospital, and it’s a heartbreak I’ve never had to experience myself. I also appreciate how I have a partner against this world, legally and emotionally.
Where I live, you can file a “declaration of domestic partnership” online to receive those rights: https://www.miamidade.gov/global/license.page?Mduid_license=...