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Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

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Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#381

Post by watwut »

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #23
saulpw wrote: post #7

I've generally given a lot of notice as an IC, 2-3 months in some cases. and I have to say, I think it's not been appreciated, not even once. I've tried to spend the time wrapping things up, communicating my tacit knowledge to my coworkers, and writing documentation for things that I've done and created and am responsible for; I'm fairly certain that no one has given my opinions and thoughts any more than a cursory a…

I completely agree. The part about infecting people with my attitude is especially relevant. It's normal that we talk. And when they ask "why?", it feels awkward. If I tell them all the reasons, it will influence their perception of their situation (which might be quite positive) and I prefer not to do that. But if I avoid answering, I will be perceived as dishonest or hiding something. So usually I invent some excus…

> And when they ask "why?", it feels awkward. If I tell them all the reasons, it will influence their perception of their situation (which might be quite positive)

I find this on itself to be a dysfunction. In well functioning team, they would be able to guess, because they would know your general opinions. And their positive opinions would be known too.

As in, this happens only because the communication within the team or within the corporation is dysfunctional and people dont talk in the first place.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#382

Post by watwut »

ghaff wrote: post #98
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if I avoid answering, I will be perceived as dishonest or hiding something. So usually I invent some excuse so that nobody feels bad. So you avoid the perception of being dishonest and hiding something by actually being dishonest and hiding something?

You don't need to lie. There are plenty of generic reasons you can give why you're leaving that probably even have the virtue of having some truth to them. (Was time to make a change.) No reason to get into a blow-by-blow of why now and what all the things that made the situation less and less tolerable were. It's not lying. It just not telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. ADDED: Companies c…

It is still not the truth. I am not saying you are obliged to say the truth if the is unsafe or if no one will listen. But lets not pretend this is actually honest communication. It is not.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#383

Post by ricardobayes »

saulpw wrote: post #7

I've generally given a lot of notice as an IC, 2-3 months in some cases. and I have to say, I think it's not been appreciated, not even once. I've tried to spend the time wrapping things up, communicating my tacit knowledge to my coworkers, and writing documentation for things that I've done and created and am responsible for; I'm fairly certain that no one has given my opinions and thoughts any more than a cursory a…

Yeah exactly. The experiences around me agree with you: once someone is "out" most managers will look to "eliminate" that person from the group ASAP. I've even seen someone being asked not to come in from tomorrow, which shocked everyone since that person was well liked, a good performer - even had multiple patents associated with him. It was just a power trip from that manager.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#384

Post by ricardobayes »

indymike wrote: post #102
saulpw wrote: post #7

I've generally given a lot of notice as an IC, 2-3 months in some cases. and I have to say, I think it's not been appreciated, not even once. I've tried to spend the time wrapping things up, communicating my tacit knowledge to my coworkers, and writing documentation for things that I've done and created and am responsible for; I'm fairly certain that no one has given my opinions and thoughts any more than a cursory a…

> But now when I "give notice" and they don't even let me try to work the next 2 weeks, I'm grateful. Life hack: Put your resignation in writing with a date in the future. In many states, if the employer attempts to move the termination date (without compensation), they will award wages until your resignation date... I've used this twice, and in both cases, I was sent home, but HR told the manager that any severance…

Probably not as you will just make it worse by letting them fire you. Which makes for an awkward reference call later.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#385

Post by ResearchCode »

0xBDB wrote: post #378
ResearchCode wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is purely for the benefit of the employer. You can always negotiate a shorter or asymmetric notice period. There does not appear to be any relation between "flexibility" (at-will employment so companies can abuse you) and unemployment rates. Japan has 3% unemployment and stronger labor protections than Europe.

You could do a study with a lot more data points than that to see if there's a correlation. Which someone has, and there is: "Overall the results of the paper suggest that policies that enhance labor market flexibility should reduce unemployment." https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2012/wp1264.pdf

It wasn't a study, but showing that you can have the strongest labor protections and negligible unemployment. Worth striving for. But there are actual studies, including a few citing yours, that show no such relation. Regardless, a 1.29 point increase in unemployment for not having at-will employment sounds like a bargain to me.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#386

Post by ricardobayes »

jethro_tell wrote: post #269
snarf21 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. Two weeks for knowledge transfer should be it. Remember that most leadership view all engineers as replaceable cogs. Just wrap up what you can and loop others into the things that can't and move on with life. Big companies probably don't want you around from a liability. Small companies want the knowledge transfer because you have "blind-sided" them. (Despite asking for a raise for the last two years a…

I gave 6 weeks on my last one to a fanng, Never again. That was when the project I was working on was slated to finish, and I continued working on it until then. I but it was a bit unexpected for me and I had a 4 day weekend scheduled to take my kids on a school trip. Came back on Monday, incompetent fuckers had locked me out and terminated me as a no call no show. lol, uh, it's in the fucking time off tool you fucks…

Yep this is more like the real word experience. Never be "nice" to companies, they don't give a shit about you. I'm not even bitter or anything like that is just the reality. Your coworkers will forget about you in a week. Work is transitional, don't make it your life.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#387

Post by hallucy »

the_only_law wrote: post #371
hallucy wrote: post #370

This comment section is nuts. Obviously don’t jeopardize an offer by trying to push your exit back. Duh. But if you are already quitting, and you’re not immediately starting another job, why not extend your departure date? Best case they send you home day 1 but respect your effective date. Worst case they send you home day 1 and stop paying you immediately. So if you push it out maybe you get a few extra paychecks. A…

Maybe, I’m quitting for a reason more than just money.

Sure but everything being discussed presupposes you don’t hate your job.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#388

Post by thunfischbrot »

psychphysic wrote: post #328
thunfischbrot wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notice periods are, as far as I know and in my experience, the _minimum_ number of weeks or months to give notice. Nothing is stopping you from giving notice earlier.

The question is can an employer truncate it? It seems like you could really harm a company by forcing them to pay you to nothing if because they don't want to start someone on a project they will definitely leave half way through.

If you continue fulfilling your responsibilities as an employee, I don't see why. If a longer planning horizon is needed, a longer notice period is the answer.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#389

Post by thunfischbrot »

rrobukef wrote: post #379
indymike wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s not the date you put in the letterhead. That would be insane. Clarification: I put in the body of the letter the effective date I will be leaving. Something like: "My final day will be December 12, 2018." The date in the letterhead has nothing to do with it.

If you're really mistrusting of your employer, you may not want to give them proof you notified them earlier.

If that was the motivation, you would need to not notify them earlier. Simple as that.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#390

Post by paulcole »

hallucy wrote: post #367
paulcole wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, it's not common practice for tech companies to immediately fire anyone who resigns It doesn't matter if it's a common practice. It's whether you want to deal with the uncommon outcome. The odds might be long but the stakes are high. Imagine in the United States giving 2 months notice thinking you're a good guy doing a mitzvah for your employer and then getting walked out the door and having to figure out COBRA…

Eh, you are always at risk of being fired, too. You’d have to have some kind of data to make the claim that this risk is more meaningful than the 1000 other risks you take every day. Otherwise you’re just accepting status quo risks blindly, and thereby letting the mob make decisions for you. That seems risky.

What are the risks of giving 2 weeks notice compared to 2 months?
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