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Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

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Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#381

Post by rainworld »

UncleEntity wrote: post #127
rainworld wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> … and Western support turned his last-minute coercive expedition into full-blown war. His what? Massing a hundred thousand troops on the border isn’t “last minute” and they had their sights set on a (quick) regime change after a shock and awe campaign to force surrender. Do you want an apology or something?

Another thing people in the West seem to earnestly believe is that this story begins on 2022-02-24 and that the use of military force renders historical context irrelevant. This standard is, of course, never applied to the military adventures of the West.

From a Russian perspective, Putin gave Ukraine 8 years to build a competitive army, with extensive NATO help. Back then, Russia could have forced a more serious settlement or regime change fairly easily. Maybe it was necessary to wait, to prepare Russian economy for the inevitable wave of sanctions. (Which, I might add, have failed spectacularly in their original, stated intent of bringing Russia to its knees.)

However, it appears that Putin really did hope for the qualified success of settlements as weak as Minsk I/II, or a possible third iteration. Coerced, if necessary. Either way, all that failed and now war is raging and hundreds of thousands of slavs (most of them from Ukraine) are dead, with many more to follow.

This is obviously not an outcome that Putin desired. This is, however, an outcome that seems to make some people in the West very happy indeed. “Weakening Russia” is what they call it, gleefully. And they keep pushing, keep stoking the fire. War is peace.

However, they deeply, fundamentally miscalculated. That will become very apparent over the next decade.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#383

Post by danaris »

kypro wrote: post #314

Why have so many comments been flagged here?

Since the start of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, there have been a significant number of commenters here who have, for whatever reasons, advanced opinions that align very closely with Russian propaganda.

Some of these seem very reasonable—things like "shouldn't we try to push for peace?" "Should we really be arming the people of another country?"—and others might seem reasonable if you don't know a lot about the recent history and politics of the region—like "the main reason Russia invaded was because they were scared of Ukraine joining NATO".

I would not seek to impute specific intent to any particular commenters here; while it's entirely possible that a forum like this has some genuine Russian propagandists on it, I would say it's just as possible that they either don't know or don't care about HackerNews. Either way, it's clear that a lot of this propaganda has made it into the general conversation, and some people believe it and spread it for various reasons of their own.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#384

Post by elforce002 »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #358
elforce002 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Will the term "self fulfilling prophecy" apply here? I mean, that's how the stock market work, right? Something or someone introduce fear (impending war, possible crash of the dollar, etc.), get people talking about it causing more uncertainty, and the cycle continues, thus fulfilling the original premise. I'm not a geopolitical expert by any means, but if there was a time to make a move against the US,…

Fun exercise, do the same thing - but for positives: - We'll be basically energy independent in 10 years - Manufacturing is being decentralized and re-shored - Our domination in tech is not slowing - Despite the news, violent crimes are near all-time lows - Education is at an all time high - Low income wages are at recent-history high - Working hours are declining, PTO is going up - Gay rights are at an all time high…

That's the thing, isn't it? Fear sells, everyone (at least MSM) is stating negative views. "Independent" outlets are stating we're approaching to a global conflict, major economic shifts, etc...

What you stated is interesting since you have to dig deeper to look for these news and even doing that, you'll have the majority of people disagreeing with you. Reality is 99% of the world atm is only looking the bad things and forming their conclusions based on that. We're literally watching the power dynamics being "shuffle" and the general perception of the US being shifted right before our eyes. These news have embolden part of the world to take action and move against the US (which is scary if you think about it since the ramifications will affect everyone) and we can say it makes sense since no country can fight all fronts at once (US and Africa, US vs EMEA, US vs China/Russia, etc..).

I'm hopeful things will get better and the western world will get its "things" together.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#386

Post by andreygrehov »

jnsaff2 wrote: post #372
andreygrehov wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia is not targeting civilians, but since this is a war, civilians are obviously affected. What really happens is Russia targets military objects as part of their demilitarization goal. Ukraine shots down a rocket and then debris strikes into civilians buildings. This is happening daily. Example: today's night. My family is in Ukraine right now. Russia was bombing a military base which I used to walk around when I…

What legitimate business russia has being in Ukraine at all? Let alone you just lying about russia only targeting military.

> What legitimate business russia has being in Ukraine at all?

That's a strange question. There is very little common sense when a war is in progress. What legitimate business US had in Afghanistan? Such questions make zero sense.

> Let alone you just lying about russia only targeting military.

30 minutes ago I jumped off a call with my parents in Ukraine. That's what they told me. That's what they've been telling me pretty much every day since the war began.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#387

Post by HDThoreaun »

carlosjobim wrote: post #347
boeingUH60 wrote: post #247

Score a win for the US, NATO, and the west. Putin is a weak fraud who has been exposed…can’t wait for his regime to collapse, all without the west lifting a finger. When you meet a mad paranoid dog like Putin, the best thing is to bait them and let them eat themselves just like Putin has done.

I might be talking to deaf ears here, but have you considered reading something written by Putin, Biden, Trump or Obama? Or the rulers of other large nations? They are all highly intelligent people even if they are responsible for horrible things. Thinking that Putin is a "mad paranoid dog", speaks to me that you have become the victim of propagandized media made for very simple minded people, and I doubt anybody fre…

I've read enough from Trump to come to the conclusion that he is not highly intelligent. At least not in the way intelligence is usually thought of. He is a very talented leader though.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#388

Post by leereeves »

spookie wrote: post #285
Convolutional wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Russia didn't take over Finland because it couldn't . It wasn't for a lack of will. They committed 450k to 750k of their man and lost 300k of them. If that isn't defeat, I don't know what is.

[flagged]

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#389

Post by ta1243 »

torbica wrote: post #148
ta1243 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You talking about NATO specifically or America?

NATO.

Only time I've seen Nato bombing was with UNSC approval to combat genocide. In I'm fairly sure the bombing in Serbia was supported by at least some of the ethnic Albanians being attacked by the government, which would nullify the claim "Nobody in my country wanted to be bombed by NATO"

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#390

Post by Paradigma11 »

sbaiddn wrote: post #306
mastax wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lost the election (while gaining seats) to a party which has been pro-NATO for longer.

... so she lost the elections, but most Fins support the ascension.

She has not gained as much additional popularity as other parties did.
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