Live data from Hacker News

Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

france24.com

381–390 of 571 posts

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#381
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real problem with scooters is cuties unwilling to provide them with proper infrastructure. Bike lanes in most cities (out of the better European cycling cities), tend to be narrow and about 1/4 - 1/3 the size of a car lane. If a city were to dedicate a single car lane sized lane for “micromobility” and responded quickly to damage to this lane (which wouldn’t be as frequent for the obvious reason that damage is pr…

> If a city were to dedicate a single car lane sized lane for “micromobility” Most cities do not have a car lane sized lane to spare.

Just a question of priorities

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#382
I'm a strong adherent of electric transportation, having recently upgraded from an electric moped to an electric motorbike.

I've also used these rental scooters all over my city (Vienna, Austria) to get around and I find them very convenient when, in a pinch, the excellent public transportation doesn't work out.

That said, I think there is a major modification required to these devices that will radically decrease the accidents: they need to make a sound.

Seriously, riding an electric vehicle is one of the most pleasant, enjoyable experiences around - but getting hit by one is easily one of the worst surprises imaginable. Every week, I count the number of people I could've hit full-force with my electric motorbike, if I hadn't been paying EXTRA attention to the street - on average I have one to three near-misses every week. I don't blame the pedestrian - after all, I'm keeping EXTRA attention for them, since I know my weakness: I am silent as heck in a city full of pedestrians whose survival skills have been honed on hearing whats around the corner.

Those days are over. We need speedo-synthesizers now. I've half-considered writing one myself (synthesizers are my thing) but I'm pretty sure its something that needs to be so reliable that it has to be built into the OS.

I wish Apple would address this. It'd be so much safer on the roads if we had great sound design alerting pedestrians to the hooning idiot coming around the corner. And thats the issue with these electric scooters - too often they are being operated by idiots. And yes, I class anyone riding a scooter without at least a bike helmet on, to be a full idiot.

tl;dr - Scooter companies need to start hiring sound-designers to keep ignorant pedestrians on the pavement before they get demolished by the silent, excellent transportation options hitting the scene ..

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#383
post #287

I wonder if there have been any social studies done regarding the apparent sense of entitlement that comes with operating any kind of vehicle. E-scooters are an absolute menace nearly everywhere I've seen them being used, with their operators weaving between pedestrians and cars alike, and littering the kerb when unused. But the same is often true for bicycles, especially the fast electric kind, and it's certainly tr…

Half of the reaction aren’t addressing the real vote results. Escooters aren’t banned. People voted against 3 different private companies littering the sidewalk. Paris’ inhabitants showed strong support of a public, off-the-curb scooter and bike infrastructure.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole argument about "they clog the streets" and annoy me is absolutely contrary to the actual incentives to cheaper and more ecological transport. Bullshit. These e-scooter sharing services operate on cities already covered by all sorts of public transportation services, including municipal e-bike services. The key difference is that municipal services address and avoid the problem of abusive occupation of pub…

> Bullshit. These e-scooter sharing services operate on cities already covered by all sorts of public transportation services, including municipal e-bike services. Bullshit. Specially at night. > The key difference is that municipal services address and avoid the problem of abusive occupation of public space by employing networks of pickup/dropoff spots Bingo! Thanks for making the point for me. You want to ban e-bik…

> e-bikes/bikes that can be left freely

That's the whole point: they can't.

You cannot dump your crap on the street and expect that to be ok.

If you can't just park your car on any random sidewalk or dump your bike in the middle of the street, what leads you believe that it's ok for a multinational to dump their crap all over a city?

Construction companies have to file for permits and pay all kinds of fees to temporarily park a trash bin on the sidewalk. People have to pay fees to get the trash company to take care of furniture you want to throw out, and you still can't just leave it on the sidewalk. What leads you to believe that it's ok to dump all sorts of crap on a sidewalk, specially when they are mainly used for joyrides?

Meanwhile, there are countless solutions for personal mobility that have been around for ages. Hell, is a bicycle an alien concept? Let's not fool ourselves into believing that a multinational's abusive business model is the only way anyone can move from point A to B.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is quite important. While e-scooters are very eco-friendly, in hands of large rending companies they usually have extremely limited lifespan and are not fullfulling this place.

> This is quite important. I'd go a step beyond and claim that e-bike sharing services like Lime are extremely detrimental to an urban space while adding nothing to mobility and sustainability. They are mainly gimmicks used to litter urban spaces whose only purpose is to serve as a kind of coin-operated joyrides. These operators come in and dump truckloads of things onto the public space, scatter them around, and pre…

Here in Romania, THE CARS litter the urban spaces. There are cars parked everywhere: on the sidewalks, on the side of the road in parallel with those on the sidewalks, in bus stops, on all the green spaces, on no-access markings of the roads, etc. I wish people would use more e-scooters & e-bikes. 8-10 rental e-scooters fit in the same sidewalk space a car would occupy and a car can't be moved if the owner isn't there.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funnily enough we have the exact opposite in the UK. Private scooters banned, rental scooters laying all over the pavement. I lean towards private scooters as more preferable because they don't clutter the public space. However, because they aren't regulated, some people have extremely fast models. Not uncommon to see someone doing 30mph+.

> Funnily enough we have the exact opposite in the UK. Private scooters banned, rental scooters laying all over the pavement. What's the rationale behind this nonsense?

I would start guessing with the obvious: money.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 'E-scooters have safety risks, let's encourage people back into 2-ton fossil-fuel-burning cars instead!' You somehow believe that the only options on the table for personal transport is either "2-ton fossil-fuel-burning cars" or the miraculous selfless service sold by a couple of multinationals. It must be hard to intentionally ignore all the public transportation services in all shapes and forms, like railway, bus…

Most scooter-haters don't differentiate between personally owned scooters and rental scooters, and personally-owned scooters (likely to be better maintained, more sensibly driven, and not abandoned in the street) will get caught up in the bans.

> Most scooter-haters

Please don't.

There is no such thing as "scooter haters".

Companies like Lime are criticised for their abusive and antisocial business practices of dumping crap on the public space without any concern, criteria or care, and pretend everyone around them to just suck up the externalities to validate their business model.

No one cares if you ride your whatever on roads or bike lanes. People care when you dump your crap all over the place and get them in the way of everything. You'd hear the exact same complains if instead of escooters you dumped washing machines.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#389
I think the main issue is use private companies of common shared space. Its not certain that a private companies has the right to use public communal spaces.

Secondary issue physics. A person riding an electric scooter is a danger to other pedestrians especially vulnerable are children and eldery.

Kinectic energy calculation

KE = 0.5 × m × v²

Let's calculate the kinetic energy for each speed:

5 km/h (1.39 m/s): KE = 0.5 × 70 kg × (1.39 m/s)² ≈ 67.5 J (joules)

10 km/h (2.78 m/s): KE = 0.5 × 70 kg × (2.78 m/s)² ≈ 270 J

20 km/h (5.56 m/s): KE = 0.5 × 70 kg × (5.56 m/s)² ≈ 1080 J

Chat gpt explaining the above impact energy

"67 joules: This amount of energy is roughly equivalent to the energy required to lift a 6.8 kg (15 lbs) weight one meter off the ground. Imagine dropping a 6.8 kg object from a height of 1 meter; the impact would be relatively small and generally tolerable.

270 joules: This energy is comparable to lifting a 27.5 kg (about 60 lbs) weight one meter off the ground. Picture dropping a 27.5 kg object from a height of 1 meter; the impact would be more significant and might cause some discomfort or minor injury.

1000 joules: This amount of energy is similar to lifting a 102 kg (about 225 lbs) weight one meter off the ground. Imagine dropping a 102 kg object from a height of 1 meter; the impact would be substantial and has a higher risk of causing pain or injury"

Third issue is blocking of pedastrian spaces, this is a danger to visually impared. A form of littering.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#390
post #362
post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also a problem of shared spaces. Pedestrians and Bikes are a poor mix. Bikes and Cars are a poor mix. but scooters and bikes seem to mix quite well. Malmo, Sweden; where I live, has excellent cycling infrastructure and the scooter "problem" is really miniscule. There are still issues, people parking in stupid ways or taking scooters into pedestrian areas, but overall there are significantly more dangerous driver…

> Malmo, Sweden; where I live, has excellent cycling infrastructure and the scooter "problem" is really miniscule. It could be that what can turn e-scooters from an amenity to a menace is tourism. Malmö would hardly be on the map as an international touristic destination. This means that e-scooter users are mostly locals. Which in turns means (a) that e-scooters would typically be a complementary mean of personal mob…

Whenever I visit Paris as a tourist, I have another impression.

Each time I stop, as a pedestrian, to wait for a traffic light to turn green, grumbling Parisians walk around me and cross the street with complete disregard for the red light. (I'm not sure I've ever even seen a Parisian pedestrian waiting for a traffic light. They might wait for traffic to clear a bit, but not until there's a green light.)

So to me, it looks like the locals have zero respect for traffic rules. Therefore I'm not surprised that new modes of transport come with a lot of problems.

Post reply on HN