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Ubuntu stops shipping Flatpak by default
381–390 of 624 posts
Re: Ubuntu stops shipping Flatpak by default
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ehem: https://old.reddit.com/r/EndeavourOS/comments/wygfds/full_tr... EndeavorOS is basically vanilla arch with an installer, I just posted their thread because they were open and transparent about the issue while the arch sub did very little. When I raised this with an arch dev, I was told they purposely shipped grub's master branch (not release) because they didn't feel like backporting a security fix, and if I cou…
I may be misreading this comment, but it feels a little stuck up. Arch is created for Arch developers. This is well-known and they have never hidden that. The wiki states as much somewhere in the installation guide. That the distribution turned out to be useful to many others is purely coincidental. If you tried it and decided you're not one of them, no need to pour shit on devs as if they owed you something and didn…
I agree, it is a little stuck up, on the part of the elitist devs.
If this was a little hobbiest distro, I'd agree with you, but this is one of the most popular distros out there. There is a certain expectation of competency and quality.
I would argue that shipping the master branch of a bootloader isn't competent when there are stable releases available, and not addressing the issue when literally thousands of users are having the problem isn't very respectful of your userbase.
FWIW, I did eventually fix it, but the endeavour os folks were much more understanding and helpful with the issue. The arrogance I saw on r/arch was insane and offputting.
Re: Ubuntu stops shipping Flatpak by default
#383Wow they're still pushing snaps, the project with some the worst engineering I've ever seen. - Extremely slow at doing anything, even the most basic commands. - Ridiculous auto-update mechanism (you can't even disable it wtf). - Random, nonsense limitations (why can't I open dot files and dot directories???). So terrible that for most apps that I installed with snaps I end up installing the deb version later on. What…
I've been using ubuntu server for I don't even know how long, but am going to be moving all my stuff to debian when I rebuild my hardware here soon.
I should've done it a long time ago but until recently Ubuntu has been "debian but with some nice little extra bits of effort here and there to help make it smoother". Now it's "debian but with a lot of spicy canonical opinions dumped on it".
Re: Ubuntu stops shipping Flatpak by default
#384Earlier quoted context omitted.
My favorite experience with snaps is Firefox just closing in the middle of doing something because it wanted to update, and it didn't even bother to check if I was using it first.
This also happened to me. So I decided to uninstall the snap and “apt install firefox” Guess what I got? A freaking snap. Yes, try it. I’m done with Ubuntu
Oh so that's why both the Snap and the APT-installed versions of VLC were broken, they were the same one???
Re: Ubuntu stops shipping Flatpak by default
#385Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, users don't do it. The application developers do it in their CI pipelines. Application developers should be the ones building and testing the app, not distro maintainers responsible for a dozen other applications.
History has shown that application developers are very bad at releasing good deliverable without too much security holes in the packaged libraries or bad practices. And the sandboxing in flatpak is actually meant to protect users from harm done by clueless devs but it fails because devs can actually build non sandboxed flatpaks and they will do it because they don't care
History has shown that distro maintainers aren't perfect at patching security vulnerabilities either and that sandboxing is useful regardless. It also shows that user want working software and will go through the effort of inventing new package formats like flatpak to work around distro maintainers. Maintainers now have a choice between complaining that everyone else is doing it wrong and eventually becoming irrelevant, or getting with the program and maybe even offering their expertise to accomplish what people want to do
Re: Ubuntu stops shipping Flatpak by default
#386Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, Arch is definitely geared toward a more technically proficient user base. Their users, myself included, are typically willing to wrestle with changes like that. Recovering a system that won’t boot is almost a rite of passage in the community, since there’s an expectation that you probably built up the entire boot process by yourself, so you ought to know what it’s doing. For some users, that’s simply not true.…
Yeah I was using endeavoros which was basically vanilla arch with an installer at the time. https://old.reddit.com/r/EndeavourOS/comments/wygfds/full_tr...
That was the event that got me to stop using "Basically" arch (Endeavour, arco, etc) and just use arch itself.
Re: Ubuntu stops shipping Flatpak by default
#387Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem with that model is that it puts the burden on the distro maintainers to package every possible application for their distro. And application developers have to essentially wait for each distro to repackage their app before it becomes available on that distro. Or start messing with alternate repositories for each distro they want to support. The old model works for established software, but breaks down a l…
> The problem with that model is that it puts the burden on the distro maintainers to package every possible application for their distro. That's ... kind of the job of a distro maintainer.
Can you name one distribution which isn't severely understaffed?
Re: Ubuntu stops shipping Flatpak by default
#388Earlier quoted context omitted.
This also happened to me. So I decided to uninstall the snap and “apt install firefox” Guess what I got? A freaking snap. Yes, try it. I’m done with Ubuntu
Everyone's done with Ubuntu. It's just not good. Its got a stereotype at this point for being the easy noob distro but that's not even true. Its top to bottom awful and has been for many years.
I have meager needs so I haven't run into (m)any of the issues here, but what's a deb based alternative that isn't meant for absolute stability at the expense of anything modern?
(I ask with actual curiosity; I'm ignorant to most distros.)
Re: Ubuntu stops shipping Flatpak by default
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hot take: package distributors are 'fake jobs' that don't need to exist, or exist only for the make-work of packaging. Tools like flatpak, snap, appimage, containerization, etc. have made the need for adapting software to different distributions unnecessary.
Yeah, if you don't mind hugely increased start-up times, RAM usage and less curation and more crap, sure no need for package distribution. I personally do mind very much. Just the differences in startup times between apt and snap applications are huge and I would absolutely despise working with such a sluggish system. I would rather build everything myself from source if forced to.
Not to mention it introduces a single point of failure, that once compromised can start pushing malware directly to user.
With maintainers in the loop, there is at least one more person that can notice something is fishy. Not to mention there is usually so time before packages are updated, so there is more time to notice an attack.
Re: Ubuntu stops shipping Flatpak by default
#390Earlier quoted context omitted.
This also happened to me. So I decided to uninstall the snap and “apt install firefox” Guess what I got? A freaking snap. Yes, try it. I’m done with Ubuntu
Everyone's done with Ubuntu. It's just not good. Its got a stereotype at this point for being the easy noob distro but that's not even true. Its top to bottom awful and has been for many years.
Call me a noob if you like, but I don't like hunting down drivers. Tried to go to debian on my last dev machine upgrade, but reverted straight back to ubuntu. I may be lazy, but I really don't want to hunt down drivers. I'll try debian again next cycle.