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Hardware microphone disconnect (2021)

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Re: Hardware microphone disconnect (2021)

#381

Post by raxxorraxor »

ademup wrote: post #163
dheera wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how are we supposed to trust Apple that this is in fact what's happening? With a Framework laptop I have a hardware physical switch and I can actually open it up and see the PCB trace and verify that it disconnects the microphone.

I would really like to know why this comment was down voted. It is a perfectly valid question with a rational explanation. Indeed, I was surprised to have needed to scroll down so far to find it, as it was the very first question that popped into my head as well.

I think this is nothing else than Apple being a difficult topic again.

Re: Hardware microphone disconnect (2021)

#382

Post by kingkawn »

scarface74 wrote: post #286
kingkawn wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI the feds can legally compel you to use biometric scanning to open your device, but cannot compel you to give up passcodes. Last I heard

Because law enforcement always follows the rules and they don’t employ rubber hose decryption.

Ya but you can take that one to court. Nothing to do about it if they just put your pinky on the pad

Re: Hardware microphone disconnect (2021)

#383

Post by aprilnya »

dev_tty01 wrote: post #245
I_am_tiberius wrote: post #208

In general they should finally open source the operating system. A close source system should not be called safe, private or secure.

First, Apple does open source the core OS as Darwin. I appreciate your perspective, but I am curious why anyone would think that open sourcing the rest of it is even a remote possibility? As far as closed source being safe, I don't think open source is safe either. We have seen some horrendous exploitable bugs which lived in open source code for years. Just because something can be thoroughly audited, doesn't mean it…

No one said fire the entire macOS team and only have volunteers contribute. You can have an actual team and still be open source

Re: Hardware microphone disconnect (2021)

#384

Post by rimliu »

Reptur wrote: post #323
Gigachad wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That creates a worse product for the user. It adds an extra switch to the design which complicates it, and it leads to situations where the mic isn’t on but the user doesn’t know why. What Apple came up with works perfect as it adds some privacy while affecting the user in no way. This is also combined with permission dialogs for mic access and an indicator light showing the mic is in use.

> It adds an extra switch to the design which complicates it, and it leads to situations where the mic isn’t on but the user doesn’t know why. This could be solved with a simple dialog box telling the use to check the switch. > What Apple came up with works perfect as it adds some privacy while affecting the user in no way. Far from perfect. Anything except physical disconnect switches can be overridden with software…

Ah yes, "dialog box solves problems" must have been how we got cookie prompts.

Re: Hardware microphone disconnect (2021)

#385

Post by graynk »

JohnBooty wrote: post #171
0cVlTeIATBs wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was surprised by needing to do this when switch to MacOS. So many things don't "just work" despite all that I've heard about it.

Overwhelmingly, it does "just work" as Apple intended. However, it's often quite opinionated. So Apple's intended functionality may or may not jive with your preferences. This is neither a defense nor criticism of Apple, and it's not a defense or criticism of your preferences either. I will point out that anecdotally, I don't hear too many people wanting their mouse's scrolling to work in the opposite direction as th…

> I will point out that anecdotally, I don't hear too many people wanting their mouse's scrolling to work in the opposite direction as their trackpad. I think Apple's probably got well over 99% of the userbase covered with the defaults and opinions here.

OK, this is my biggest pain point after switching to MacOS for work, so let me go on a rant. Not only can't I imagine this particular scenario covering 99% of the userbase - I can't imagine anyone wanting this behavior with a regular mouse that has a scroll wheel (as opposed to buying Apple's Magic crap, which Apple wants you to do). Literally every other system is set up so that scrolling the wheel down would scroll the page down. And pretty much every laptop I've used had natural scrolling on a touchpad either by default, or as an option (a separate option from the mouse setting).

I could maybe see it sort of working if your mouse wheel has an infinite scroll feature, but even then it's super unintuitive.

But OK, let's buy into "think different" approach (AKA "we will break every convention ever set by man 'cause we're quirky like that") and assume that this is somehow more convenient if you haven't been contaminated by using other systems. What's the harm in providing a setting for other people? Like you said - it's a preference and a very simple one and a very common one, clearly not a 1% use case. How is this not a part of the system? The only answer I can find is: "we want you to buy Apple Magic Mouse, it feels natural there". The way the Apple pushes you into their shitty ecosystem is so anti-consumer that it boggles my mind that there's not that much pushback for it.

So far my experience after switching to MacOS had a very clear pattern: How do I enable "feature x"? -> Wait, I can't, seriously? This is basic OS functionality, how in the world is this not a default feature? -> (dig through dozens of "you're using it wrong" comments) -> OK, let's download yet another third party app then, I'm sure it will never serve as a vector for a supply-chain attack.

Re: Hardware microphone disconnect (2021)

#386

Post by graynk »

radlad wrote: post #113
jdlyga wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We typically use LinearMouse for this. Allows you to even set scrolling direction, scroll speed, acceleration profile, etc per mouse. But yeah, MacOS is a little like Gnome Shell. It requires a few basic apps to make it usable, but after that it's pretty excellent.

Thanks for mentioning LinearMouse. I've previously used Scroll Reverser so it's nice to hear of other options in this space.[0] [0] https://pilotmoon.com/scrollreverser/

MOS [0] is also pretty good, if you like smooth scroll.

[0] https://mos.caldis.me/

Re: Hardware microphone disconnect (2021)

#387

Post by larsnystrom »

macshome wrote: post #326
cj wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly, whenever I'm working at my kitchen table I always "lose" my mouse as if there's another monitor connected. I realized a couple weeks later MacOS display continuity (or "sidecar"?) was connecting to my Mac Mini located directly upstairs using it as a 2nd monitor while I'm downstairs. My apple watch also regularly unlocks my Mac Mini when I'm downstairs (Mac Mini in a bedroom upstairs). All of these features…

Your watch really shouldn’t be able to do that. The pairing uses p2p latency as a way to determine if you are actually close enough to your Mac to want to unlock it. I’ve used it for years now with a variety of watches and Macs and I’ve always had to be right next to the computer with a fairly clear line of sight between them. Even putting my watch on the other side of my body is normally enough to make it tell me th…

I have, like GP, been able to unlock a computer downstairs when I'm directly above it. So N=2.

Re: Hardware microphone disconnect (2021)

#388

Post by scarface74 »

kingkawn wrote: post #382
scarface74 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because law enforcement always follows the rules and they don’t employ rubber hose decryption.

Ya but you can take that one to court. Nothing to do about it if they just put your pinky on the pad

You don’t have to. You use the evidence gathered on the phone to find other evidence that is admissible.

But “going to court” rarely happens. 95% of cases are plea-bargained.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/plea_bargain

Given overwhelmingly evidence and an overworked public defenders office, you’re not going to take a chance on going to court where you will probably lose.

Re: Hardware microphone disconnect (2021)

#389

Post by uncletammy »

dvirsky wrote: post #67
lovehashbrowns wrote: post #62

They have this feature but closing the lid on a MacBook or even putting it to sleep allows Bluetooth devices to stay connected. Heck, a MacBook even while in sleep mode will connect to Bluetooth devices. As far as I can see, this requires a third-party app to fix. Can an application still use the microphone on a Bluetooth device that’s connected?

This has to be the most annoying thing in MacOS. My laptop, soundly sleeping in my backpack, takes over my bluetooth headphones all the time.

How is this not seen as a massive privacy oversight?

Re: Hardware microphone disconnect (2021)

#390

Post by san-fran »

dheera wrote: post #94
zamnos wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the point that you're opening up the laptop and chasing traces, you can do the same thing with Apple devices (with a bit more difficulty). It's not like they're made with rainbows and moonbeams. If you're at that level of paranoia (no judgement if it's justified or not) and have the skill to, just open up the Apple device and chase PCB traces. If you go down that route, iFixit's a good resource with lots of helpfu…

If it's in-chip, it won't be with PCB traces, it would be solid state inside the chip and you wouldn't be able to verify without inspecting the wafer, which is way outside my area of expertise. It doesn't sound like there's a mechanical relay that they are using for this. There's also that if it's inside the chip, there is a risk that malicious software or buggy firmware can still enable it against your permission. W…

I did just peel back the bezel on my Framework here. It looks like those hardware disconnects use some sort of blade that interrupts what I'm assuming to be an optical switch of some sort, one for the mic and one for the camera.
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