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Why Python keeps growing, explained

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Re: Why Python keeps growing, explained

#381

Post by cjalmeida »

noloblo wrote: post #344
ironman1478 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of these problem spaces can get away with single threaded performance because maybe they're generating a report or running an analysis once a day or at even slower frequency. I work in a field where numerical correctness and readability is important for prototyping control algorithms (I work on advanced sensors) and python satisfies for those properties for our analysis and prototyping work. When we really want…

debugging dynamic python and imperative stateful python after a certain code base size >10k LOC gets extremely painful for any meaningful scale you are better served by basic FP hygiene as evidenced in haskell elixir CL/racket or rust/golang

I don’t get it. Go is as imperative as a language can be.

Re: Why Python keeps growing, explained

#382

Post by cjalmeida »

lupex wrote: post #316
dkarl wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes think about what Python would be like if it were written today, with the hindsight of the last thirty years. Immutability would be the default, but mutability would be allowed, marked in some concise way so that it was easy to calculate things using imperative-style loops. Pervasive use of immutable instances would make it impossible for libraries to rely on mutating objects a la SQLAlchemy. The language…

You should check out Julia ( https://julialang.org/ ), that's very close to what you describe.

You beat me to it!

Julia is both dynamic and fast. It doesn’t solve all issues but uniquely solves the problem of needing 2 languages if you want flexibility and performance.

Re: Why Python keeps growing, explained

#383

Post by cjalmeida »

mandevil wrote: post #204
VBprogrammer wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you rewrite the whole thing or just drop into C for the relevant module(s)? Because the ability to chuck some C into the performance critical sections of your code is another big plus for Python.

But... pretty much any language can interoperate with C, it's calling conventions have become the universal standard. I mean, I still remember at $previousJob when I was deprecating a C library and carefully searched for any mention of the include file... only to discover that a whole lot of Fortran code depended on the thing I was changing, and I had just broken all of it (since Fortran doesn't use include files the…

Calling C from Julia is pretty straightforward

https://docs.julialang.org/en/v1/manual/calling-c-and-fortra...

Re: Why Python keeps growing, explained

#384

Post by cjalmeida »

zeku wrote: post #263
osigurdson wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is hard to believe that Python is objectively that much more productive than other languages. I know Python moderately well (with much more real world experience in C#). I like Python very much but I don't think it is significantly more productive than C#.

Python is out of this world more productive in the Science space and Data space. The only thing that can compete with it for productivity in the science space is R.

This. C#, Java or even newcomers such as Kotlin/Go are even in the same ballpark due to the REPL/Jupyter alone. Let alone when you consider the ecosystem

Re: Why Python keeps growing, explained

#385

Post by noloblo »

cjalmeida wrote: post #381
noloblo wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

debugging dynamic python and imperative stateful python after a certain code base size >10k LOC gets extremely painful for any meaningful scale you are better served by basic FP hygiene as evidenced in haskell elixir CL/racket or rust/golang

I don’t get it. Go is as imperative as a language can be.

go is imperative but there are functional elegant styles borrowed from otp/erlang in ergo https://github.com/ergo-services/ergo https://memo.barrucadu.co.uk/three-months-of-go.html

Re: Why Python keeps growing, explained

#386

Post by kyawzazaw »

osigurdson wrote: post #242
airtag wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally depends on the business you're in. If you're dealing in areas with short time limits then Python is great, because you can't sell a ticket for a ship that has sailed. And I've seen "the right way" which, again, depending on the business may result in a well designed product that is not what's actually needed (because people are really bad at defining what they want) What's brilliant with Python compared to ot…

It is hard to believe that Python is objectively that much more productive than other languages. I know Python moderately well (with much more real world experience in C#). I like Python very much but I don't think it is significantly more productive than C#.

If you are in a lab (natural science lab) or anywhere close to data, I bet you it is much more productive, even more so when you have to factor in that the code might be exposed to non-technical individuals.

Re: Why Python keeps growing, explained

#387

Post by kyawzazaw »

brundolf wrote: post #329
Lyngbakr wrote: post #81

I think one reason for Python growing popularity is because it's become the default tool in some domains whether it is the best tool or not. This week our Director ordered a total rewrite of two years of work in Python. His rationale: it's what everyone else uses in this space. No reason specific to our use case, just simply to follow the herd. I realise that a large community translates into easy hiring and rich eco…

It's really funny that one of the subheadings under "Why is Python so popular?" is "It has high corporate demand."

That's a perfectly relevant thing, no?

Re: Why Python keeps growing, explained

#388

Post by kyawzazaw »

qwery wrote: post #377

Github is primarily a website for developers, right? Who is the blog for? This article is garbage. It reads like SEO trash and I'm not sure why Github feels the need to publish it. It's just a list of common Python talking points. Points that the author displays a poor understanding of. The article doesn't really attempt to explain why python keeps growing but the facts listed vaguely suggest that it "keeps growing"…

Marketing to those who are new to coding. Seems like a good business decision on GitHub's part.

Re: Why Python keeps growing, explained

#389

Post by ironman1478 »

noloblo wrote: post #344
ironman1478 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of these problem spaces can get away with single threaded performance because maybe they're generating a report or running an analysis once a day or at even slower frequency. I work in a field where numerical correctness and readability is important for prototyping control algorithms (I work on advanced sensors) and python satisfies for those properties for our analysis and prototyping work. When we really want…

debugging dynamic python and imperative stateful python after a certain code base size >10k LOC gets extremely painful for any meaningful scale you are better served by basic FP hygiene as evidenced in haskell elixir CL/racket or rust/golang

Because you say it doesn't make it true. It's not that painful or painful at all really. Good abstractions and planning make writing and maintaining a python easy, just like in any language.

Re: Why Python keeps growing, explained

#390

Post by tmtvl »

noloblo wrote: post #344
ironman1478 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of these problem spaces can get away with single threaded performance because maybe they're generating a report or running an analysis once a day or at even slower frequency. I work in a field where numerical correctness and readability is important for prototyping control algorithms (I work on advanced sensors) and python satisfies for those properties for our analysis and prototyping work. When we really want…

debugging dynamic python and imperative stateful python after a certain code base size >10k LOC gets extremely painful for any meaningful scale you are better served by basic FP hygiene as evidenced in haskell elixir CL/racket or rust/golang

Common Lisp, paragon of FP:

  (loop for x across numbers
        when (evenp x)
          do (setf result (+ result x)))
I mean yeah, you can do FP in CL, but it allows you to program in any paradigm which you prefer.
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