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IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

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Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#381

Post by BenjiWiebe »

defrost wrote: post #176
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> are not visible to people when the satellites are in the shadow of the Earth (at night) Night is altitude dependent. Satellites can be in sunlight while the ground below is pitch black. (That said, I find the complaints about visual pollution silly.)

Out of interest, where do you live on the light polltion map [1], Bortle scale [2]? Do you have any sense of what you're missing out on or how bright and distracting tens of thousands of LEO sats glinting in the sun are, or to what degree they mess up long exposure visible astronomy shots, or the noise they make for radio astronomy? I have no issue believing that you find "complaints about visual pollution silly" ..…

I live in Bortle class 3 and I don't notice more satellites now when star gazing then I remember 10 years ago.

The hundreds of starlink satellites are totally invisible to me, except sometimes right after launch.

A starlink satellite train is amazing to watch and I'd love to see it a few more times.

EDIT The light pollution that really bothers me is the terrestrial light pollution. There's several cities within an hours drive of me, and they make such a large glow in the sky.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#382

Post by panick21_ »

petterparker wrote: post #126
lispm wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> downvotes without rebuttals you are trolling. Estonia has high-tech exports of 2.6 billion USD. Germany has high-tech exports of around 200 billion USD, which makes it world-wide number three, with the US being number four. Data from the World Bank. The city I live in has roughly four times the GDP of Estonia. We have for example one of the largest civil airplane manufacturing sites here. 40000 people are employed…

Also ignoring that estonia has a population of only about 1.3 million, let alone the geographic size. It's a tiny country, which makes it easier to build infrastructure. Estonia has received heavy subsidies from the EU which went towards infrastructure projects. Germany on the other hand is the largest financial contributor to the EU by far. [1] The plan has worked, to share the success of the big economic powers wit…

Funny that Germany managed to provide good internet infrastructure for new EU countries but in their own country Deutsche Telekom has managed it that Germany is now behind those countries.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#383

Post by [deleted] »

drewg123 wrote: post #362
scotty79 wrote: post #355

Why this infatuation with low Earth orbit? Why not put just few satelites further out, like every other satellite internet provide does except starlink? EDIT: To people bringing up latency. Far away satellite has them far enough that they cover large area so the signal goes to satellite and back and that's it. Distance introduces latency. But in case of constallation packet must bounce through multiple satellites and…

According to https://frankrayal.com/2021/07/07/latency-in-leo-satellites-... , GEO has about 20x the latency of LEO. I think this is why starlink is so much more usable than traditional satellite internet.

[deleted]

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#384

Post by panick21_ »

arlort wrote: post #107
seszett wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Entire huge countries such as France and Italy produce basically nothing of value when it comes to tech, while small nations like Estonia and Finland punch well above their weight. I'm still waiting for the Estonian space rockets and Finnish airplanes and high speed rail. Seriously your rant is a bit misplaced.

Tech is only tech if it runs on javascript

Yeah like a Tesla.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#386

Post by panick21_ »

jq-r wrote: post #230
peterfirefly wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever sells in Czechia, Croatia or Bulgaria tends to be a) more expensive than in Germany and b) less good. I'm shocked that that is still the case. I remember recurrent news stories years ago on German TV about that exact thing, except with Poland. Poles who lived close to the border shopped food in Germany for that very reason. I don't understand why food would be more expensive in countries with lower wages.…

It's still a thing. A lot of people in Croatia still buy specific food products in supermarkets like Lidl and Muller because they carry the same products as in Germany or Austria. So of much better quality of course. The price at the time is generaly considerably higher than in neighbouring countries because VAT is just a part of the general taxation scheme. Whatever taxes companies get saddled with just get transfer…

And in Switzerland Lidl is basically looked at incredibly low quality food provider.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#387

Post by tpmx »

panick21_ wrote: post #353
tpmx wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps eventually Ariane Next/SALTO, with an architecture very similar to Falcon 9? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_Next

No, Ariane Next is not even being seriously worked on. For this rocket to exists there will be at least 3-5 years of political discussions. The Ariane 6 has not even flown yet and Ariane 6 was already very decisive. If Ariane 6 first flies this year, don't expect funding for a new rocket for at least 5-10 years and then at least 5 years of development. Any Ariane Next will not exist before 2030 and likely not before…

Sounds like the EU I know and loathe. /EU citizen from the north

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#388

Post by jasmer »

PicassoCTs wrote: post #83
Deukhoofd wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's honestly got to the point where I barely open comments related to EU projects any more. While most of the time there's somewhat nuanced discussions in comments, once the EU gets mentioned for some reason most of the comments basically boil down to "EU bad, US better", and "Big government bad", completely ignoring the actual contents of what the post it about.

A crowd that is ideological resistant to reality in quite a entertaining fashion. Just remember the Boing 737 Max, which was never explored under this focus. Why does European airbus thrive, while us aircraft industry declined? Both are heavily state subsidized, so it is not that. There is something dysfunctional in us business culture, that extracts value first, and then runs without creating something for the value…

And Volskwagen cheating on it's emissions?

This is bit of a glib view of Boeing.

Boeng and Airbus will trade spaces for a while, until China starts stelling it's gear at 1/2 the price and then we will see some material changes.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#389

Post by kazen44 »

panick21_ wrote: post #331
alright_scowl wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the benefits far outweigh the downsides. To be frank, I think a big chunk of its problems is that it is not integrated enough. Then again, my perspective is from someone not originally from Europe, that chose to migrate here and declined job offers from the US even though I would receive considerably more money had I accepted. I have zero regrets, by the way. So take my opinion as one without the social nuanc…

I think many of the benefits could be achieved with better methods, other then putting a French style barley democratic bureaucracy on top of all existing democracies. The reality is also that almost non of the people in the countries were actually asked if they wanted to join. There is a difference between being pro European integration and pro existing EU structure.

how where people not asked if they wanted to join?

mind you, European integration is a major political pillar in national politics of basically all countries inside of europe and its periphery.

People vote on parties based on there political program, and most people seem to want to vast economic benefits being a member states brings. (heck, ukraine is basically fighting a war at the moment about an issue which basically boils down to European integration).

People definetly had a say if they wanted EU membership through the political process of there country.

The only case where this is a bit of a grey area is of the founding countries of the precursor of the EU. (european community of coal and steel). Most of those measures got passed as policy without a lot of democratic process by the populance.

But we cannot change the past, and considering the state of most of europe during the 1950's i wouldn't judge them so harshly for it.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#390

Post by alright_scowl »

panick21_ wrote: post #331
alright_scowl wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the benefits far outweigh the downsides. To be frank, I think a big chunk of its problems is that it is not integrated enough. Then again, my perspective is from someone not originally from Europe, that chose to migrate here and declined job offers from the US even though I would receive considerably more money had I accepted. I have zero regrets, by the way. So take my opinion as one without the social nuanc…

I think many of the benefits could be achieved with better methods, other then putting a French style barley democratic bureaucracy on top of all existing democracies. The reality is also that almost non of the people in the countries were actually asked if they wanted to join. There is a difference between being pro European integration and pro existing EU structure.

How exactly is it just "barely" democratic?
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