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Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

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Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#381
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A CEO would not need to lay off people if their long term plans worked accordingly, which means that they suck at their job. So any CEO who is not a psychic will most likely end up sucking at their job.

Let me put it this way. If I were to hire an engineer that writes 10x more code than the next, but all the code needs to be rewritten after a year because he made some very questionable decisions, I would definitely fire that guy. Similarly, if I hire a CEO who hires 20,000 people, then lays 12,000 off after a year, I would have to question his ability as the head of the company. It is not about being able to predict…

>If I were to hire an engineer that writes 10x more code than the next, but all the code needs to be rewritten after a year because he made some very questionable decisions, I would definitely fire that guy.

thats dubious. did that code serve the purpose needed? did it provide enough value during that time to offset the cost of replacing it? I've written plenty of dubious code to get out a feature in front of a customer who would have otherwise left us. Sometimes that was it and we never had to touch it again. other times, more people would depend on it and the initial feature justified the resources to rewrite it. Its more complicated than "was the code bad." code is the product of the constraints at the time. that includes things like time sensitivity or budget.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am not exonerating CEO as a person. Well, if you're not trying to exonerate CEOs, saying "The problem is not CEOs. The problem is shareholders / owners" is a pretty strange thing to say. The CEO, as a person, made the decision; the CEO, as a person, is responsible for that decision. The CEO is the problem. > Either you convince shareholders to change their mind or you change the law. That's it. Changing the mind…

>Well, if you're not trying to exonerate CEOs, saying "The problem is not CEOs. The problem is shareholders / owners" is a pretty strange thing to say. No, it is not. When I say the problem is not CEOs I mean they are not the problem. If I am manager and I hire poor devs and they fuck up a project, who is to blame? Is it the poor devs who can't code or is it me who hired them? Did you know CEOs are actually hired to…

> If I am manager and I hire poor devs and they fuck up a project, who is to blame? Is it the poor devs who can't code or is it me who hired them?

See, this is why blame isn't a particularly useful way to approach the problem. In all likelihood, both share some degree of blame.

> Imagine half of CEO candidates being bad people, half being good ones. Imagine that shareholders will always chose the ones that will only care for their share value and this happens to be choosing bad people.

Imagine we put the bad half in jail. Then nobody will be willing to perform massive layoffs, and shareholders will have to pick from the pool of good CEOs. This isn't complicated.

Actual jail time is a bit more extreme than necessary: proportional fines are more along the lines of what I think would be best.

> Who you really need to go for is shareholders. Make them pay for not treating people right, make it not worth.

The problem with going after shareholders is that not all of them are to blame for problems.

Shareholders simply don't have visibility into companies to be able to make informed decisions. Technically shareholders have the right to some degree of visibility, but if you own a diverse portfolio you're spread too thin. Consider the literally most common form of investing in stocks: buying an S&P 500 index fund--are you really of the opinion that it's shareholders' responsibility to be intimately aware of the goings-on of 500 different stocks?

Even if you put this responsibility on the fund manager, 500 stocks is a lot (and the problem is even worse with total market funds). Additionally, [index] fund managers hands are partially tied: they can vote in elections but they can't sell the stock because they have to conform to the index.

And ultimately, minority shareholders can't even meaningfully vote. In many (maybe even most?) companies, And finally, it's a big assumption to believe that share price is actually an incentive to shareholders. For the larger shareholders of a company, the shares in a company have to be viewed in the context of their overall portfolio. There are situations where driving down the price of shares you own can be profitable. For example, if you own shares in competing companies A and B, you can buy put options against your own shares in B and then drive it into the ground. You lose money on your B shares, but that's more than compensated by your puts and the rise in price of A shares.

> No, don't go after CEOs. It will just create a new stack of perverse incentives.

Sociopaths will always find perverse incentives (such as the company A and B example above). Making changes many layers of abstraction away from the problems as you're proposing just increases the complexity of situations and makes it easier to find loopholes.

The CEOs are the ones who make the decision to lay people off. They should be held responsible for that decision. It's not even about blame, it's just about solving the problem in the most direct way possible.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#383
post #378
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did they fail? The spent 1 year salary times 15,000 people times $333,333/man-year. So $5 billion. That's a pretty big cost. On the other hand, it was a hedge against losing significant opportunities/market share. The question is "was it a good bet".

Exactly. Just because they ended up reducing headcount doesn't mean they failed. Success isn't measured from the employee perspective. Everyone here calling for their heads is using the wrong measuring stick.

It's also a success from the employee perspective. Those people got FAANG salaries for a year when they shouldn't have been hired.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#384
post #377
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but did the company have to pay that much to get that same value? I saved a company from losing a $5 million dollar sale when I was 6 months out of university, but should I have received $5 million for my value? Plenty of other people could have accomplished the same thing.

Who are you to say what the company thinks is fair pay?

Aw thanks for asking. I am the all-knowing oracle of fair pay, but you can call me cudgy.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#385
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He did so however on the basis that it would increase the share price. Facebook needed a narrative to pitch to shareholders, the metaverse was the one they selected.

Over the long run, yes, that was his belief (and job). I don’t think he did so expecting a share price benefit in the following 2 quarters, the premise of the question.

The purpose of rebranding from Facebook to Meta was entirely for the short term share price.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stepping back from any emotional assessment, the growth of these businesses was not commensurate with the hiring. You can look at both the financial reporting and the economic indicators from that period and a reasonable measure of growth was warranted but not at the level these companies [edited from "comments"] hired at. It was more of an irrational tragedy of the commons, where companies were hiring because they w…

This is an interesting take, and on the surface I'd buy this. I think the assessment from many companies was "we're hiring because of where the world is clearly going" (ecom sustains a 20% lift overnight, healthcare sees a 37x increase in telemedicine use, etc), but perhaps a lot of this was just "we want the talent because other people want the talent." I'll definitely dig into this take further!

Just saw this today and it bears out this out a bit more:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34740322

Those companies expected a major societal event to become the new normal without strong data to support it, and chased growth that was not going to be sustained.

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