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Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

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Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#381

Post by parasense »

> However, when I have to join a cheesy townhall once a month to discuss diversity hires, it makes me feel like I have no right to feel proud of any accomplishments I've made within the company.

I feel the same way, kinda...

I'm male, and not a PoC, so perhaps maybe my perspective is different?

I'm told that I'm privileged, but that's not how I feel.

I'm told due to systemic bias that I'm probably unaware of my privilege, but I feel well aware of all the disadvantages I've actually experienced. And yet I'm open minded to exploring the way I could be oblivious to other people' problems.

I'm not sure if I'm actually the bad guy, or if I'm being gas lighted.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#382

Post by dylan604 »

spoiler wrote: post #211
dylan604 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

My experience is different, too. I've never experienced these racist/sexists IRC communities in the past either. Sure, there'd be the occasional asshole like everywhere else online, but they'd get warned (and banned eventually). Why is your comment so passive aggressive, though? While the counter claim hasn't presented any proof, the same holds true for the original claim. You seem to be only thinking critically of t…

just dismissing someone else's claims out of hand because they don't fit your personal experience--while not on the same level of negative as making actual racists posts--it's not helpful to say the least.

when someone makes posts of their personal experience, the follow up posts that claim "my experience is different" proves what? are you honestly suggesting you're having a better experience? that's great for you. are you trying to make the the original poster jealous and feel superior?

are you suggesting, "keep your head up because it's not that way everywhere so don't let 'em ruin it for you"?

are you trying to argue and say they are wrong because their experience differs from yours so it must not be true?

but to tell someone that they are totally incorrect about their very on personal experience is just baffling

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#383

Post by anonymouskimmer »

nonethewiser wrote: post #354
backzerman wrote: post #129

I'm seeing a lot of claims here that DEI initiatives are about actively hiring under-qualified under-represented candidates to change the demographics of the company. I've sat through a lot of DEI sessions at work (as have many of my friends), and I've yet to hear of anyone actually _hiring_ under-qualified candidates for the sake of a quota. The DEI sessions I've sat through have focused heavily on the I--inclusion.…

DEI is about factoring in race. Race should never be part of the decision making process. On top of being morally reprehensible its also illegal.

DEI can also be about looking past stereotypes.

A couple of decades worth of research has shown racial bias against URMs in hiring exists. Breaking past it with a requirement to interview and consider URMs is a start, not the finish.

https://hbr.org/2021/02/research-how-companies-committed-to-...

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#384

Post by busterarm »

908B64B197 wrote: post #358
busterarm wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We opened a director level technology position, were encouraged to apply and then we were told explicitly at a company meeting that it was only open to a female PoC (which could only possibly be filled by an outside hire based no our org chart).

Here in America that would be completely illegal (And a lawyer somewhere would probably buy his next boat with that case!).

We are here in America, and I was shocked when it happened. But also no lawsuit came of it, because everyone who stood something to lose buys into the idea in the first place.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#386

Post by lettergram »

kenjackson wrote: post #296
lettergram wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's best for the company to scream it to the world. Or at least that's what the leaders think right now. After sitting in a room where we were told we needed to increase our “minority representation in upper management” (and I’m a mostly white manager). There were already 20% apparently, they wanted 40%. I asked my boss, “so what does that mean to me? To me it seems like you don’t want me” Boss: “oh no, you’re fin…

Honestly your take seems a bit childish. I coach basketball and I say “we need more bigs”. Should my smaller lightening quick point guard quit? No. I want a diverse team. The fact that you didn’t get that would make me question if I wanted you on the team. Not your race/gender.

> I coach basketball and I say “we need more bigs”.

First, yes I'd say that is ridiculous. There are shorter NBA players, the fact we target "bigs" shows a lazy coach who's incapable of assessing the best way to form a team.

Second, size does play a factor [one of many] in basketball; In coding, neither the amount of melanin, hair color, eye color, nor gender play a role. We can argue a diversity of ideas or backgrounds are good. That's why we hired people with degrees in different fields; we hired people with different work experience. You don't want to say "we need less white people" or "we need less green eyed people". Sorry, but in your example it's equivalent to saying "I want more blonds in basketball" -- there is no relation.

> The fact that you didn’t get that would make me question if I wanted you on the team

I did not want to work with bigots of any kind.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#387

Post by Dooflegna »

tootie wrote: post #218
tastyfreeze wrote: post #132

Hiring preferences for PoC is discriminating against all not PoC. It is in practice exactly what these initiatives claim to be fighting, bigotry.

That infers the baseline is equality. The reality is that hiring without explicit guidelines will bias against POC. DEI is about counteracting unconscious (or conscious) bias.

Exactly this. DEI isn't about ignoring race--DEI is -recoginizing- the impact that things like gender, race, and sexuality has on our biases.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#388

Post by foolinaround »

avip wrote: post #264
moomoo11 wrote: post #176

I wish we would transcend to a point where we look up to people based on their achievements and separate their race from it. I’m Asian btw. I can relate to Lebron just as much as I can relate to Neil Armstrong or Satya or Matz or Woz or Marie Curie because they are all excellent at what they did/do. I want to be excellent like them. Because we all are humans.

It's also funny to use the term "Asian". I'm also "Asian" (from Israel). There are hundreds of completely non-related ethnical groups in this vast continent.

Asian has a different meaning in US Tech circles.

I found that out, when I arrived in this country, and was informed that Indians are their own groups, and Asians referred to Chinese and Koreans (and others).

The 'Asian' tag is a clear racist way, determined by the way one looks.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#389

Post by dude187 »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #294
drstewart wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, solid resource: http://bash.org/?121764 > why do you crackers steal everything from us? http://bash.org/?51331 >(@virt) cracker barrel is the most hilarious name for a place where a bunch of white people go http://bash.org/?86009 > It's sad when white people try to talk like black inner city people. It's doubly sad when those white people are European. :P Incredibly virulent anti-whiteness. Thank you for posting…

The fact that these are so low-ranking compared to the top quotes is instructive. Also, the third one is definitely an example of anti-Blackness, not anti-whiteness.

> the third one is definitely an example of anti-Blackness, not anti-whiteness.

Why do you capitalize the b but not the w?

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#390

Post by slackfan »

eldaisfish wrote: post #352
slackfan wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

way to miss the point and your argument is a strawman. People on IRC didn't care about "Who you were" because the assumption was that you came from privilege. Privilege usually translated to white, urban, heterosexual male. Those groups said some horrible things about other communities because they felt the space was "safe". Now that this is changing and calling people "orientals" or "gay" is no longer acceptable, th…

Privilege is not assumed, it is given. Who is this privelege given by?
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