Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Quitting the rat race

seanbarry.dev

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 434 posts

Re: Quitting the rat race

#381

Post by disqard »

lm28469 wrote: post #336
namuol wrote: post #78

I’m pretty sure the romanticizing of the idea of “quitting the rat race” is one of the largest motivators to play the game. If you want to quit the rat race you’re going to have to sacrifice a lot, unless you checks notes “[work] at a top tier investment bank as a software engineer”.

Or work part time at a chill company, 3 days a week and still make 2-3 times the min wage of your country (easily doable in tech). You're still in the race, but instead of burning everything to get in front and "win" (win what ?) you're just taking a stroll at the back, enjoying the view while chatting with your friends

Staying at the back leaves the door open to amazing outcomes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Bradbury

(burning out and quitting definitely removes that possibility)

Re: Quitting the rat race

#382

Post by disqard »

boh wrote: post #188

These self-indulgent "I'm not happy with my high paying job" posts are getting pretty repetative and tedious. Most people don't actually work to get "fulfilled". I guess this must resonate as freedom-porn.

You're not wrong, though here's one underlying reason why it's playing out this way:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/religion-w...

Excerpt:

"In the past century, the American conception of work has shifted from jobs to careers to callings—from necessity to status to meaning. In an agrarian or early-manufacturing economy, where tens of millions of people perform similar routinized tasks, there are no delusions about the higher purpose of, say, planting corn or screwing bolts: It’s just a job."

Re: Quitting the rat race

#383

Post by bumby »

tjrDL6MjB2Zwwa wrote: post #379
bumby wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point being made is that HN is meant for discussion; so I'd assume you wouldn't see any value in discussing that topic on the forum. I think it's fair to say there are certain principles (like the idea that a minor cannot consent to a sexual relationship with an adult, or that slavery is a moral wrong) can be viewed as immutable (or, at least immutable within a certain cultural context). However, germane to the d…

The quote in it's full context > A lot of those on here, I don’t listen to their input on what successs is. > I will never be happy until I am climbing to the highest potential I can get to. No one is going to talk me into being otherwise. What's being discussed is the definition of _success_, not happiness. And in fact, what the poster said is, this is what makes me happy and I'm not interested in anyone convincing…

You’re missing the even broader context. The article is explicitly discussing “happiness” and why the author isn’t happy despite being “successful” by traditional measures.

Further, some of the issue is with the imprecise definition of “happy”. The modern use of the term can be used interchangeably. What causes someone to be hedonically happy may make them eudaimonically unhappy. So IMO it’s completely warranted to have further discussion to either define the definition or bring into question if someone is chasing the right goal for them. Saying what is tantamount to “I’m not willing to discuss this” facilitates none of that.

Re: Quitting the rat race

#384

Post by gymbeaux »

ericmcer wrote: post #374
gymbeaux wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "these are starter jobs!" argument is tired and invalid, because so many Americans north of 20 (30, even) are working those jobs. I almost want to say you should know I am not thinking about teenagers/college students in my previous comment.

I am just pointing out that it is all relative. My friend is a doctor who makes 500k+ and dropping to a lowly 120k would make him miserable. I also have friends who make 25/hr and are fairly content, they don't need drugs to fend off suicide like you implied. Someone wouldn't spend 30 years working retail in utter misery the entire time, these are intelligent people who have agency. I spent ten years working these jo…

$25/hr isn't bad pay... Nobody at the local Chipotle is making $25/hr. That makes all the difference in the world, believe it or not. At $25/hr you and an SO also making $25 can buy a house, for example.

Re: Quitting the rat race

#385

Post by gymbeaux »

thowaway959125 wrote: post #252
gymbeaux wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I worked a blue-collar/service job, making 1/5th what I make as a SWE, having to commute, stand on my feet all day, deal with customers... I'd do drugs. Like I get it. I get why people do drugs. I get why people don't save money for retirement. Life sucks SO MUCH, that it's basically the daily $5 Starbucks drink or suicide. Make no mistake, for most people, life fucking sucks. Then some of you come into that Chipo…

> Make no mistake, for most people, life fucking sucks. And for many, it's one small slip-up, poor choices, medical problems, etc. and they may have to look forward to these sorts of jobs ... potentially until they drop. I have no back-up plan, and ageism is a thing. I have to play this software engineering game for as long as I can to avoid the service sector when I'm older. And I have to play it very carefully. Rig…

Agism is a thing, in both directions. I believe I have been discriminated against for being the youngest person on the team (I often was until mid/late 20s).

Definitely though it will become an issue later in life, though I have to wonder if agism really will be a problem for us, or if it will be that we simply quit the rat race of keeping up with the industry. I'm thinking about all the older developers/engineers I have worked with over the years, and they all had one thing in common- they did not or would not keep up with the industry. Some were working with System Z mainframe stuff, some were working with VB.NET, and most moved into management.

Management is certainly one way you could save yourself from aging out (whether through agism or not keeping up).

Re: Quitting the rat race

#386

Post by bradlys »

bradly wrote: post #375
bradlys wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you leave where you were living and retire to some other area? Most family and friends I’ve spoken to are completely fine and generally supportive. Even when I quit my $1m/yr job, people were like - “if it feels like prison and is making you miserable - do it. Life is too short.” I took up another job at a 60% paycut. That turned out to be terrible too. So now I’ve not been working since June and traveling and li…

> Did you leave where you were living and retire to some other area? We did not. My job was great. I was working from home (precovid), my manager always did his best to unblock me if I was blocked and let me go if I was going. My biggest fear was not liking being retired and having to come back to a worse job somewhere else. Also, my friends and family are not in tech. My income to them was very significant. > It’s h…

I have a lot of friends not in tech and even they were supportive and understood.

That said - I had absolutely terrible (toxic) jobs that most people couldn’t last even half the time I was at.

Re: Quitting the rat race

#387

Post by red-iron-pine »

krisroadruck wrote: post #275
BaseballPhysics wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bluntly, every person I know who's expressed these kinds of sentiments is guilty of the same mistake: externalizing their happiness. They inevitably move, only to find the new place they're in sucks, just in different ways. Or they find another job, but just discover more things they hate there. Or they find a new partner, only to discover a new set of annoyances. The same psychology leads people to think they'll be…

As a counter-point, I spent about 5 years pretty miserable between 3 different jobs - my complaints where the same at each organization. The profit motive was being put above all else, including employee well being, an actually high-quality service, and in some cases baseline ethics. People were constantly pressured into working more than they should, both in the short term (too many hours per week) and in the long t…

I'll counter this counter-point: I started my own consulting (and later, hosting) business and they've been a slog.

The parent comment glossed over "the hard bits of actually getting it off the ground and getting those first few customers" -- it's really hard. Five years in now things are going okay, but it took a while to get back to the came total comp I had pre-starting-my-own-biz, and even now the level of work is much higher (but so is the comp...).

If I had to do it again I'm not sure I would, and would definitely do a lot of things different. The big one would be going hard on biz dev from day 1 (or even day 0; start prospecting before incorporation), with #2 and #3 being talking to an accountant and lawyer ASAP once I could afford them.

Re: Quitting the rat race

#388

Post by mantas »

BizarreByte wrote: post #371
mantas wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like don't marry a psycho and maintain communication...

From watching other people’s lives this seems way easier on paper than in reality. It’s a huge risk no matter what.

There're plenty of safeguards the society has developed over a long time.

But if somebody heads for relationship straight from romance movies with drama all around and sex is #1 criteria... Then outcome is pretty clear.

Re: Quitting the rat race

#389

Post by wnolens »

temende wrote: post #294
wnolens wrote: post #96

Ah yes.. the trope of overpaid (with respect to history) millennial writing about their transcendence from this absurd thing called 'work'. Not judging harshly because I did nearly the same as the author years ago! Only I found a pot of emptiness at the end of the rainbow. I hope he really REALLY likes mountains ;)

So you tried doing what the OP did and ended up going back to your job? Would love to hear more if you don't mind expanding.

Have a lot to say, it was an emotional journey with highest highs and lowest lows of my life.

But can't type it all out. Happy to answer any particular question.

In short: I saved up enough not to quit rat race forever, but to see what life was like without the obligation to work for an open ended amount of time. I did whatever the hell I wanted at any moment. Which was euphoric, but it's really really hard to accomplish larger efforts or really meaningful things with that attitude, because those things necessarily come with struggle. With no obligation, you don't need a tolerance to pain. You just quit building your side project when it gets frustrating. I only had staying power doing the things I enjoyed the process of.

After 2.5y (the last 1.5y spent doing 20h/wk contract work, and trying to build a startup) I crashed and burned hard psychologically. Freedom means nothing to me intrinsically, I need a reason to appreciate the freedom or make productive use of it. The appreciation wore off, mountains wore off, I don't actually want to code on my own time. Everyone else in life is busy doing meaningful things to them. I broke down and got a job again, but with a much different relationship with work.

Re: Quitting the rat race

#390

Post by temende »

wnolens wrote: post #389
temende wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you tried doing what the OP did and ended up going back to your job? Would love to hear more if you don't mind expanding.

Have a lot to say, it was an emotional journey with highest highs and lowest lows of my life. But can't type it all out. Happy to answer any particular question. In short: I saved up enough not to quit rat race forever, but to see what life was like without the obligation to work for an open ended amount of time. I did whatever the hell I wanted at any moment. Which was euphoric, but it's really really hard to accomp…

Wow, we actually have very similar trajectories. Except I'm still at the point of doing part-time work + coding side-projects/startups on the side.

I agree that the too much freedom can be disorienting. If you don't mind me asking, how did you end up deciding that getting a job again was the right move? How did that compare to keeping doing 20hr/wk contract work and then spending the rest of your time doing non-coding/non-startup stuff if that's what was burning you out?

Post reply on HN