Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#381

Post by mythrwy » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 1:56 AM UTC

anonreeeeplor wrote: post #255

I need to answer this because I solved this problem as a super introvert. This reply will get buried. Quite honestly, I realized I was boring and my life was boring. I had a boring job with no travel that didn’t involve meeting anyone interesting. I quit my boring career and deliberately filtered for: - has a technical element but not software development - travel, or interact with a lot of people as a result of the…

Not all women are into activism. In fact, as an older guy (who has been through a number of relationships in my younger days) I'd advise a guy to strongly avoid those who are into activism. For the same types of reasons I'd avoid overly religious women. This is not to say that there is anything wrong with beliefs on social justice or religious beliefs, but women who get too carried away with these things tend to have other issues in my experience that they are externalizing. They will make your life hell, particularly as they age. And you will be continually measured and judged by whatever thing they glommed onto.

Look for a women that wants to be a mother if that is what you are into.

Otherwise, just a good person with good sense and an even temper who can somewhat keep their life together and who gives you love and who you can love back. Someone who is happy and cares about others is best.

But I do tend to agree on "computer people". They aren't usually who I chose to hang with in off hours for the reasons you mention.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#382

Post by tsol » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 3:37 AM UTC

Dalewyn wrote: post #306

UweSchmidt wrote: post #125

The fundamental force behind this is individualism. Every single technological innovation has made it easier for the individual to function better alone. Every societal change has emphasized the individual right over the (real or perceived) benefit of the collective. This trend seems to accelerate and absolutely nothing that is happening in western society even remotely suggests a possible turnaround. You can take ac…

If you ask me, it's because humans fucking suck to be around. Myself and yourself included, along with everyone else. Marrying? Fuck that; pun intended. Friends? I can count the number of true friends I've ever had with one hand. Co-workers and comrades? Ultimately, we're just there to make ends meet. Societal collective (eg: neighborhoods, villages, towns)? Well, we're here talking about this because such things hav…

Maybe this glib cynacism has something to do with it. The world, and the people in it, aren't all that great. Both can be cruel. Maybe we have to try to see the good in it all.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#383

Post by tsol » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 3:42 AM UTC

fancybouncy wrote: post #313

woeirua wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The anti-natalist movement is a good example of this.

not at all. They are completely different things. We anti-natalists see child-making as torture and murder against an innocent -- if you see someone murdering an innocent, surely it's normal to speak out against it and try to stop it. Child making is not about parents; you are free to do whatever you do with your own life, not to involve someone else by force.

>you are free to do whatever you do with your own life, not to involve someone else by force.

are you a vegan?

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#384

Post by ryan_lane » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 7:36 AM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #368

adrianN wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Artisanal products are expensive because human work is expensive. You can either have a machine that produces a million bland identical tea cups a day for a cost of a dollar per cup or you can have an expert potter produce two dozen artisanal tea cups a day. Even if the potter works for minimum wage and materials are free it's several times more expensive.

If human labor is so expensive then why do unskilled laborers have such trouble making a living? You're ignoring the middle ground, because that's the thing that was destroyed. The expert potter is still in business selling bespoke products to millionaires. It's the one who might have done it for 15% more than the mass produced product who is gone, because we added on top of that so much bureaucratic overhead that th…

> It's the one who might have done it for 15% more than the mass produced product who is gone, because we added on top of that so much bureaucratic overhead that the final price ends up being 100%+ more instead of 15% more and that exceeds what ordinary customers are willing to pay.

Why would you buy a product for 15% more, unless there's a compelling reason to do so? The mass produced ceramics are high quality, durable, come in a variety of shapes, colors, sizes, etc. People buy hand-made ceramics for the aesthetics, and to have something that's more unique.

I think you greatly underestimate how much cheaper mass produced goods are than artisan made goods. Op's choice of ceramics is really good. Machines can produce thousands of plates in the amount of time it takes an artisan potter to make dozens. The potter's source of clay may be limited, or they may have to pay a lot more because they buy in smaller quantities. They have to pay more for transportation for the same reason. They have to pay more for distribution for the same reason.

Bureaucratic overhead may play a part in this, but overall it's a small one that gets lost in the scale of mass production.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#385

Post by ryan_lane » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 7:46 AM UTC

snoot wrote: post #371

dangus wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll just wear myself out if I keep letting myself respond to feelings-based comments like yours with facts, like how NYC is below the national average in crime safety [1] and well below national average on obesity. [2] I shouldn't exert myself pointing out that the average cost of a vehicle is about $5000 per year [3], which costs a lot more than the unlimited miles you can travel with a $75/month bus/train pass in…

> it only takes 20 minutes to walk a mile Which means you have massive delays between stops, and can’t do much if you don’t have hours available.

You know in cities there's trains, buses, and cabs, right?

Especially in a city like NYC, essentially everything you need is within a mile. I live in Tokyo right now, and everything I need for daily life is within a quarter of a mile. I can get basically anywhere in the city in 30 minutes.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#386

Post by adrianN » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 12:13 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #368

adrianN wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Artisanal products are expensive because human work is expensive. You can either have a machine that produces a million bland identical tea cups a day for a cost of a dollar per cup or you can have an expert potter produce two dozen artisanal tea cups a day. Even if the potter works for minimum wage and materials are free it's several times more expensive.

If human labor is so expensive then why do unskilled laborers have such trouble making a living? You're ignoring the middle ground, because that's the thing that was destroyed. The expert potter is still in business selling bespoke products to millionaires. It's the one who might have done it for 15% more than the mass produced product who is gone, because we added on top of that so much bureaucratic overhead that th…

The nonexpert potter can't produce two dozen tea cups a day, driving up unit costs even further. I tried, it takes me at least two hours to make a crappy tea cup.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#387

Post by dangus » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 3:38 PM UTC

kodah wrote: post #365

dangus wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstand. Their families are already in cities. (And "cities" includes suburban areas) This isn't 1800's America where most families are on rural subsistence farms. People can choose to stay wherever they want, but the networks that make up the economy have to physically exist. Factories, warehouses, etc...look at a satellite view of the Chicago River from Goose Island down to Midway airport. It's a…

My family is not in a city, I do not misunderstand. A lot more than farmers live in rural areas. The kind of take you have isn't unusual for HN though. Most people from HN have spent their entire lives in cities or suburbs, so their empathy is short.

As a numerical fact, over 80% of people in the US live in cities and suburbs.

I am going to go back to your original comment: you think we should change the fact that most jobs are in cities and suburbs.

I’m just being realistic here: that is not possible. The human population dispersing from cities and suburbs doesn’t make physical sense. You wouldn’t live in a rural area anymore if Manhattan decided to move out and go out to towns like yours. Your town would turn into a city in its own right.

Mumbai has 54,000 people per square mile. Texas has about 110 people per square mile. If Mumbai has a similar density to Texas, it would be roughly the size of Arizona, just for one city that only represents 1% of the population of India.

The fact that most people concentrate themselves into denser areas makes your rural lifestyle possible in the first place.

I am not sure what I’m supposed to have empathy for here. I never said that rural people are dumb or bad or that nobody should live in rural areas. I have plenty of empathy for humans in general. I personally don’t prefer rural life but I also don’t have any negative feelings toward anyone who wants to live that way.

I’m just being realistic: concentrated areas where humans live in communities has been our reality since nomadic hunter-gathering was replaced by agriculture.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#388

Post by snoot » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 3:58 PM UTC

ryan_lane wrote: post #385

snoot wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it only takes 20 minutes to walk a mile Which means you have massive delays between stops, and can’t do much if you don’t have hours available.

You know in cities there's trains, buses, and cabs, right? Especially in a city like NYC, essentially everything you need is within a mile. I live in Tokyo right now, and everything I need for daily life is within a quarter of a mile. I can get basically anywhere in the city in 30 minutes.

Awesome, you’ve named the features of the downtown of two of the densest and most expensive cities in the world.

You know cities aren’t all like that?

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#389

Post by tobyjsullivan » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 9:53 PM UTC

chii wrote: post #270

tobyjsullivan wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we rely on the manufacturer. We rely on electricity. We rely on having money. And we rely on a mature economy where someone is willing to solve every problem in exchange for that money. In an individualistic society, each person is expected to earn their own way and then pay to solve every problem they may have. In more community-oriented societies, personal earnings are less important than a strong network of frie…

> In more community-oriented societies, personal earnings are less important than a strong network of friends and family who can fulfill every need. and as this community grew, accounting for such "favours" between friends/family become more important, and thus, the need for unit of accounts - aka money. You'd end up replicating the current system when given long enough time and a large enough community.

I'm following up a bit late but I wasn't referring to communism or nation-sized communities. I was referring to societies that tend to value community (ranging from brazil to china - look for countries where it's normal for aging parents to live with their children).

These societies tend to keep those communities smaller - immediate family plus some closer relatives and family friends. Then there are broader networks with shallower ties where business is favoured but money will usually change hands.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#390

Post by ryan_lane » Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 5:34 AM UTC

snoot wrote: post #388

ryan_lane wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know in cities there's trains, buses, and cabs, right? Especially in a city like NYC, essentially everything you need is within a mile. I live in Tokyo right now, and everything I need for daily life is within a quarter of a mile. I can get basically anywhere in the city in 30 minutes.

Awesome, you’ve named the features of the downtown of two of the densest and most expensive cities in the world. You know cities aren’t all like that?

Tokyo doesn't really have a downtown, and what I described works for most of Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto and Sapporo. I think it mostly covers all 5 boroughs of NYC.

I lived without a car in SF for 10 years and I think it covers that city as well. A lot of international cities work the same way.