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NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

iapps.courts.state.ny.us

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Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#381

Post by seanw444 »

curiousgal wrote: post #249
colechristensen wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of if they were the right thing to do, many of the various covid mandates being enacted through whatever form of decree really didn’t seem like they fit inside the authority of the government executives trying to enact them. Many were also made to be unenforceable so they’d never be tested in court while still influencing people. The rule of law is important and limiting the power of “rulers” to make large…

Us Americans are so obsessed with government overreach that you'd think our corporate overloads are actually treating us well and that the government is the bad guy. When the government wants to fuck us over, think what the NSA has been doing, they won't look for precedents so there's no point in treating every decision they make as a potential sliperry slope. Covid was/is killing people, vaccines prevent that, so va…

is a threat to our , and so these regulations and encroachments must be enacted!

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#382

Post by seanw444 »

colechristensen wrote: post #260
curiousgal wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Us Americans are so obsessed with government overreach that you'd think our corporate overloads are actually treating us well and that the government is the bad guy. When the government wants to fuck us over, think what the NSA has been doing, they won't look for precedents so there's no point in treating every decision they make as a potential sliperry slope. Covid was/is killing people, vaccines prevent that, so va…

People like government overreach when they agree with it completely forgetting that they won’t always. Rights aren’t just for your side.

Absolutely. This is why I laugh when republicans who support all republican actions try to consider themselves libertarians. I guess it's the trendy term to be now.

If you're a libertarian, you vouch for liberties across the board. Not seesawing utter power against the other side every election cycle.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#383

Post by [deleted] »

seanw444 wrote: post #382
colechristensen wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People like government overreach when they agree with it completely forgetting that they won’t always. Rights aren’t just for your side.

Absolutely. This is why I laugh when republicans who support all republican actions try to consider themselves libertarians. I guess it's the trendy term to be now. If you're a libertarian, you vouch for liberties across the board. Not seesawing utter power against the other side every election cycle.

[deleted]

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#384

Post by TurkishPoptart »

realjhol wrote: post #318
curiousgal wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Us Americans are so obsessed with government overreach that you'd think our corporate overloads are actually treating us well and that the government is the bad guy. When the government wants to fuck us over, think what the NSA has been doing, they won't look for precedents so there's no point in treating every decision they make as a potential sliperry slope. Covid was/is killing people, vaccines prevent that, so va…

> Covid was/is killing people, vaccines prevent that, so vaccines must be required. Very simple. They don't though. None of the vaccines prevent transmission - they were never even tested for that. And only the extremely elderly or obese are in any significant danger of dieing of COVID. If you're not in either of those camps, or have natural immunity the risk is negligible.

What's the best source on this? I know it's true, it's just sad and tragic that the Atlantic is still saying they prevent infection.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#385

Post by zdragnar »

Vt71fcAqt7 wrote: post #347
zdragnar wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Covid was/is killing people, vaccines prevent that, so vaccines must be required. Very simple. There's a pretty significant difference between "you may not sell dangerous products" and "you must use X medicine". Next up, government mandated pedometers with minimum step counts, broccoli consumption, teeth brushing (prevents heart disease that kills people!), flossing, and minimum hours of sleep per night. Once we've…

I actually think the government can and should regulate food consumption. We already did it with cigarettes and trans fats. Omega-6 fatty acids should be next. A more fair but less politically viable alternative is to tax the healthcare of people with >%30 body fat. But these should probably have 10 year limits with the ultimate goal of changing people's habits.

These are still negative regulations (don't do this), which are fundamentally different than the COVID vaccine regulations.

A comparable analogy would be mandating, under penalty of legally enforced isolation, that you eat a certain amount of vegetables per unit of body weight.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#386

Post by colechristensen »

realjhol wrote: post #318
curiousgal wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Us Americans are so obsessed with government overreach that you'd think our corporate overloads are actually treating us well and that the government is the bad guy. When the government wants to fuck us over, think what the NSA has been doing, they won't look for precedents so there's no point in treating every decision they make as a potential sliperry slope. Covid was/is killing people, vaccines prevent that, so va…

> Covid was/is killing people, vaccines prevent that, so vaccines must be required. Very simple. They don't though. None of the vaccines prevent transmission - they were never even tested for that. And only the extremely elderly or obese are in any significant danger of dieing of COVID. If you're not in either of those camps, or have natural immunity the risk is negligible.

>None of the vaccines prevent transmission - they were never even tested for that.

The popular narrative being told to people from all sources was that vaccines were to prevent transmission which was quietly toned down when it turned out not to be true and then people now say things like "we never said that" when nobody mentioned it at all in the beginning that vaccines quite possibly weren't going to prevent disease or transmission.

People just move goal posts, fail to outline risks that don't align with their advice before those risks are undeniable, and generally always pretend they were right all along.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#387

Post by Maursault »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #296
Maursault wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where does it end? It ends with your survival. Vaccination isn't surgery, it's an extremely minor medical procedure that reduces or eliminates the risk of contracting a disease. During a deadly global pandemic, refusing vaccination is nothing short of suicidal . 97M Americans were infected and more than a million died. There were over 630M cases globally, and over 6.5M died due to COVID. The People have the stronge…

> The People have the stronger right to not be infected with COVID by you than your right to be infected. The proper branch of government to decide this is Congress passing a law, not each major making it up as they go along. It is definately distopian for employers to decide anything on this matter -they are not sibject to dempcratic scruitiny. And there are many methods of reducing covid infection avaliable - insta…

> The proper branch of government to decide this is Congress passing a law, not each major making it up as they go along.

Congress did decide this already by passing legislation a century ago granting temporary increased powers to the executive in event of national emergency and its declaration.

> It is definately distopian for employers to decide anything on this matter -they are not sibject to dempcratic scruitiny.

Government employment is already dystopian and private employers can have any requirements they like short of discriminating against religion, race, disability, etc. There are no federal protections for political disposition.

> And there are many methods of reducing covid infection avaliable - installing air purifiers, improving ventillation in schools, Upper-Room Ultraviolet Germicidal Irradiation (UVGI).

The virus was already circulating due to unpreparedness and slow reaction by the administration in office. Had we seen a two week stay home order in February, the crisis would likely have been averted, but the executive was overly concerned about the economy, which tanked anyway regardless of putting 300M+ Americans at risk of infection, illness and/or death.

> If situation is so serious, whu are none of those being mandated? Now we know current vaccines give you immunity for like 6 months and new variants appear very rapidly.

Again, COVID was already circulating by late February 2020, and if two vaccinations a year are required from now until the end of time, it is still a very small price to pay, a minor inconvenience at worst with the benefit of increased resistance to infection, severe illness, hospitalization, and/or death.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#388

Post by mcculley »

prottog wrote: post #380
mcculley wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all policy decisions would necessarily result in "upend[ing] everyone's lives". Many person years were lost: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm I sat in the ICU as my father died and listened to the many ventilators as a result of policy failures. I had lots of time to contemplate possible policy decisions. Pretending that the only possible choices were "do nothing" and "do something stu…

Yes, many person years were lost, mostly among the elderly and infirm. I am truly sorry for your loss, whether your father was in that group or not. But the fact on the ground is that "do nothing" and "do something stupid" were the only two choices that actually happened around the world, and regrettably mostly the latter. Pretending otherwise is not useful to the discussion or any future policy decision. There is re…

Excess deaths per capita show us where cultures are better than others at policy. Yes, some of those cultures have healthier people.

e.g., Those countries that paid only the sick to stay home were smarter than those who locked down everyone.

We should have invested in the infrastructure that will be of use in the next pandemic.

There are many obvious good policy decisions other than "do nothing".

I do realize that in the country run by Democrats, Republicans, and Trumpers that nothing useful will happen.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#389

Post by scatters »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #338
scatters wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got cause and effect backwards. Societies have to overreact to pandemics, because those that didn't got wiped out - eventually. Enforcement of quarantine and similar measures through extreme social norms is a necessary adaptation to the threat of plague; civilization wouldn't be able to exist without it.

No I don't think I do have it backward.

What was the point of writing that?

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#390

Post by govg »

ls15 wrote: post #282
govg wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blind adherence to a document written ~200 years ago, in a world that has vastly changed cultural and social norms is incredibly short sighted. People elect politicians based on trust, and if the politicians decide to pass a law that is the will of the people manifested.

What are the options if that trust is abused? People emotionally trick other people into voting for them and then do whatever is on their agenda during their mandate.

There is no universal solution to "emotionally trick other people into voting for them". If the politicians don't follow up, you vote them out. The problem in the US stems from lack of choice, owing to the entrenched 2 party system. Almost every other country around the world has more than 2 options, and there are many examples where democracy is functional.

If you're assuming that every voter is intelligent enough to make their own voting decisions, then no one is being "tricked". And assuming to the contrary puts you on a slippery slope of who gets to decide if someone was "tricked" vs not.

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