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Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#381

Post by sunjester »

MBCook wrote: post #309
Nican wrote: post #260

Jeff Atwood 5 years ago: "the Qualcomm hardware people told Google internally they were 5 years behind Apple on hardware. This was about 1.5 years ago, but I believe that's about right." ( https://twitter.com/codinghorror/status/1050538041796788225 ) And benchmarks continue to show: https://twitter.com/slightlylate/status/1584350796233117696

Someone had a battery life test for phones. The iPhones beat the android phones in nearly every test by hours. And they only had 60-70% of the raw battery capacity. And you know they have faster processors too. It’s so weird to me. The A series is kind of “that doesn’t count” because the competition can’t get close. The M series wowed people and then we all went back to normal AMD/Intel stuff like nothing happened. I…

This is very hard for me to believe, even when I see the test results. Everyone I know with an Apple phone is either over 60 or looking for a charger.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#382

Post by II2II »

uni_rule wrote: post #368
sylens wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is astonishing to me that people are out there buying Intel PC laptops when the M1 MBA can be had for <$1000

I understand the sentiment but a dead ssd won't permanently brick a large portion of x86 laptops.

More to the point: I can still access the data from the SSD even if every other component on the laptop was dead. Heck, I could pop the SSD into another laptop and continue working where I left off.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#383

Post by kimburgess »

functorg wrote: post #263

Very interesting to see that it has a built-in NPU. Such co-processors are increasingly being included in recent high-end mobile phone platforms, used mostly to accelerate image processing algorithms. Seems like this is a sign of things to come in Windows platforms too, since Microsoft are including an NPU in this devkit. The PC of the future may well end up being CPU+GPU+NPU as standard, much as it is CPU+GPU today.

I’m almost willing to bet this is early look at what a ‘native’ Microsoft Teams Room device is. Currently Microsoft relies on a partner ecosystem for compute in these, but given the push into more features built around real-time image processing, dealing with multiple cameras, multiple audio channels and other latency sensitive workloads this seems like a perfect platform to distribute that.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#384

Post by girvo »

geerlingguy wrote: post #351
MBCook wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant the rest of the industry. They said “wow” and then went back to business as usual. They had talking points about how they’ll improve and performance (as always) and efficiency got talked up more. But when will any of that show up? Hardware takes time but I just don’t see reviewers demanding it. They’ll be happy if it shows up but they’re not calling out “this isn’t good enough” and I just don’t get it. How ca…

It's surprising that efficiency is barely mentioned still, in all the latest AMD / Intel reviews, maybe it's even a point that early reviewers have to avoid or something? To me, the performance per watt is increasingly important not only as we start approaching branch circuit limits (1200-1500W max in the US), but also as (in many places) energy prices continue to rise. Both idle power consumption (e-state, core slee…

Hardware Unboxed is the only reviewer that I see that discusses efficiency consistently when reviewing parts (be they CPUs or GPUs)

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#385

Post by thesuperbigfrog »

scarface74 wrote: post #318
thesuperbigfrog wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> You really don’t think you’re out of touch with what most users want? I don't claim to speak for what most people want. I think having more options than iOS and Android could help promote more consumer-friendly choices. >> Yes because using an operating system from the other 1 trillion dollar market cap company is going to be a better alternative. Meet the new boss... It would be another choice. Yes, they have sim…

> I don't claim to speak for what most people want. I think having more options than iOS and Android could help promote more consumer-friendly choices. Using Linux on the phone with the lack of integration, the poor interface etc is the opposite of “consumer friendly”. Normal consumers are not asking for the ability to “program their phone and run media servers”. > Android is innovative because it is more open than i…

>> Using Linux on the phone with the lack of integration, the poor interface etc is the opposite of “consumer friendly”.

Who said anything about using Linux on phones? I agree that a third smartphone platform would need to be user friendly. Whether based on Linux, OpenBSD, QNX, Symbian, or something is just a technical detail.

>> Normal consumers are not asking for the ability to “program their phone and run media servers”

No one asked for iPhone. They were quite happy with their Blackberry and Treo phones. My personal wants for a smartphone are not why having a third smartphone platform would help innovation and competition in the current stagnant duopoly.

>> “Open” is not an “innovation”.

Yes, but "Closed" sucks for everyone but the platform owners.

iOS developers have been suffering and Apple has little reason it fix the issues: https://www.wired.com/story/apples-app-store-review-fix-fail...

Android developers face similar troubles: http://www.fosspatents.com/2022/07/developer-class-action-se...

The current smartphone duopoly is just two competing monopolies with consumers and developers caught in the middle.

Some organizations are trying to get "Open" smartphone marketplaces and more choice and competition in the markets:

https://appfairness.org/

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2022...

Open standards and open markets encourage real competition and innovation.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#386

Post by MBCook »

jborean93 wrote: post #345
MBCook wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant the rest of the industry. They said “wow” and then went back to business as usual. They had talking points about how they’ll improve and performance (as always) and efficiency got talked up more. But when will any of that show up? Hardware takes time but I just don’t see reviewers demanding it. They’ll be happy if it shows up but they’re not calling out “this isn’t good enough” and I just don’t get it. How ca…

What can you do about it. Outside of Apple hardware running macOS you just can't get the same. We can demand all we want but no one can offer what is available from Apple yet. I'm certainly not surprised Qualcomm/Intel/AMD want to add more fire to their feet by talking up their competition.

But you have to demand it. People have to make clear to the vendors that this matters.

As long people don’t do that everything will continue as normal. It needs to be very clear you’re not doing good enough.

As long as reviewers keep ignoring the elephant in the room in their text and scores, how are you ever going to get what I’m guessing just about everyone wants? They may not know it (us Mac users were getting annoyed at heat and noise but didn’t know how much).

But I’m convinced if someone built it, users would come out of the woodwork. So many people doing “office” work that doesn’t require high power machines would benefit. Qualcomm just doesn’t seem to be trying very hard in the computer segment.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#387

Post by 58028641 »

q-big wrote: post #374
sylens wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is astonishing to me that people are out there buying Intel PC laptops when the M1 MBA can be had for <$1000

> It is astonishing to me that people are out there buying Intel PC laptops when the M1 MBA can be had for Can the M1 MBA run Windows? EDIT: Or can it run GNU/Linux natively (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33320765 )?

Apple Silicon Macs can run Windows and Linux in a VM. Asahi Linux (native) is making decent progress.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#389

Post by jzb »

borissk wrote: post #372
sylens wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is astonishing to me that people are out there buying Intel PC laptops when the M1 MBA can be had for <$1000

The base MBA comes with only 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD and has very limited upgrade option. Also Apple charges crazy prices for more RAM and storage. For $1000 one can buy a Windows laptop with 32GB RAM and 1TB SDD, that can cheaply be upgraded to 64GB memory and 10+TB SSD (2x SO-DIMM slots + 2x M2 PCIe slots).

Um. Cheaply to 10+ TB SSD? Where are you shopping?! I want to go there.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#390

Post by whalesalad »

kristianp wrote: post #378

I'm surprised at the price for a 32GB RAM device. I'm tempted to get one just to double the ram of my desktop, despite probably being slower than my i7-3770. It might be a good platform to work on Scalable Vector Extensions (SVE) code without needing to rent a Graviton from AWS. Anandtech about the cpu: https://www.anandtech.com/show/17127/qualcomms-8cx-gen-3-for... Some info about the ARMv8.2-A Architecture (2017):…

Funny, I have an i7-3770K as my gaming rig and to this day still play Warzone regularly on it. Such a workhorse for being 10 years old.
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