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Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

economist.com

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Re: Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

#381

Post by 22SAS »

slickrick216 wrote: post #303
theptip wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused by this take. Who is threatening Japan with cruise missiles? Certainly not China or Russia. North Korea, perhaps. The primary reason that we're concerned about semiconductor fab concentration in Taiwan is that China has consistently stated that it is going to invade Taiwan at some point (and that could be 2049 or in a few years for all we know). This is completely outside of any hypothetical scenarios of…

If China attempts an invasion on Taiwan it is not unrealistic to suggest they’ll also take a swing at Japan and at least try to destroy the fabs there.

If they agree to stay the fuck out of Japan and focus solely on Taiwan, NATO will stay put to avoid WW3. Plus, South Korea, Japan, have treaties with the US, which will lead the US to intervene if either of these countries gets attacked. China might not want to officially give NATO a reason to start WW3.

Re: Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

#382

Post by whimsicalism »

dQw4w9WgXcQ wrote: post #299
d_graeme wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Tbh its constantly surprising why Americans view the CCPs zero-covid policy as a failure. Even the most pessimistic reports (based on actual facts, not tabloid-driven wishful thinking) acknowledges that China has avoided at least 2 million+ deaths through their zero covid policy. Is the right to life no longer a human right? Or have a lot of us so internalized anti-China propaganda that we're no longer able…

> Is the right to life no longer a human right? Ah yes, China, comes to the top of the list when I think of protectors of human life. One-child policies, welding people into their apartment buildings, corralling them into COSTCOs [1] like they're farm animals being loaded into a semi-truck. Such benevolence. > Or have a lot of us so internalized anti-China propaganda that we're no longer able to think logically? Nah,…

The fact remains that if US policies were implemented in China, it would mean the tacit acceptance of killing 4-5 million people.

Re: Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

#383

Post by vkou »

permo-w wrote: post #321
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fab in Ohio, Oregon, or Arizona 10,000 km from China is safe from threats like cruise missiles that the proposed fab 1000 km from China in Japan or South Korea would not be. It's not so much that cruise missiles used on civilian targets in South Korea or Japan would not be a reason to start WW3, more that it would be less tempting.

China recently tested a hypersonic missile that circumnavigated the global and then marginally missed its target

If China and the United States are in a full-on shooting war, the last thing I'm going to be worried about is what country 5nm chip fabs are based in. It's a complete and utter failure state of civilization, and is one hot-headed decision away from going nuclear.

If chip fabs are at the top list of your worries, your perspective of war is probably overly informed by being on the side that undertakes imperial adventures against people who can't shoot back. Direct war against an actual superpower is horrific.

Re: Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

#384

Post by whimsicalism »

badcppdev wrote: post #346
bee_rider wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've also saved themselves some of the long-term cost of long COVID, which is a fun mystery we've signed up for in the US. Also weren't they working with a less effective vaccine?

They haven't actually dealt with Covid yet. Their immunisation rates are low and the vaccines they've used are not the best. It's an ongoing process where they are still flattening the curve. They aren't back to normal. And this happened yesterday: https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-delays-release-eco... . The market opinion is that the financial data is very bad so they don't want to release it. And this is q…

> Their immunisation rates are low

I'm not sure that is true in general, but it is unfortunately true for the elderly in China - precisely the population they want to protect. They've sort of screwed themselves by not vaxxing the elderly at high rates.

Re: Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

#385

Post by DeathArrow »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #253
iancmceachern wrote: post #221

It's the people, the talent, the knowledge that drives any industry like this. The US government, US, we, gave Intel and some other companies a huge sum of money to stay awesome. Then they announce huge layoffs to get rid of a lot of thr talent, people, heart of their business. So, wouldn't we have been better off as a society of we had just offered thT CHIPs money as a startup find and asked a bunch or people from I…

We honestly should nationalize intel, raytheon, boeing, and lockheed martin. Probably others too. It makes no sense to develop our sensitive technology and reserve some resources solely to feed the parasite that is the profit margin.

You mean like they did in communist countries and had a huge success at killing their economies?

Re: Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

#386

Post by chrischen »

d_graeme wrote: post #243
whimsicalism wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Braindead from an American perspective, it is also likely those policies have averted upwards of 4 million deaths.

Exactly. Tbh its constantly surprising why Americans view the CCPs zero-covid policy as a failure. Even the most pessimistic reports (based on actual facts, not tabloid-driven wishful thinking) acknowledges that China has avoided at least 2 million+ deaths through their zero covid policy. Is the right to life no longer a human right? Or have a lot of us so internalized anti-China propaganda that we're no longer able…

I could make the same baseless argument that many people also died due to the over restrictive policies and draconian imprisonment tactics.

Of course 0-covid is only possible if it is maintained forever, because like it or not the rest of the world still has covid.

Re: Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

#387

Post by whimsicalism »

ouid wrote: post #296
whimsicalism wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why Xi Jinping and not, say, MbS?

Quoted post unavailable.

Engage with less vitriol :) it's in the spirit of the guidelines.

What is the standard that we use for deciding what leader is worthy of intervention against? Is it the level of support among their own population? Is it how much they seek to export their ideology and take over other countries?

I understand the analogy you're making with Chess. But perhaps you could also view it another way: MbS is a terrible dictator (with even less legitimacy than the still-illegitimate Chinese political process). The US could easily crush him, compared to do anything to seriously confront China's CCP domestically.

Given that our resources would have a direct impact on people's lives in Saudi & Yemen, whereas we don't have much ability to have any impact in China, why is it better to invest our resources in fighting Xi Jinping?

Re: Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

#388

Post by JumpCrisscross »

theptip wrote: post #288
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fab in Ohio, Oregon, or Arizona 10,000 km from China is safe from threats like cruise missiles that the proposed fab 1000 km from China in Japan or South Korea would not be. It's not so much that cruise missiles used on civilian targets in South Korea or Japan would not be a reason to start WW3, more that it would be less tempting.

I'm confused by this take. Who is threatening Japan with cruise missiles? Certainly not China or Russia. North Korea, perhaps. The primary reason that we're concerned about semiconductor fab concentration in Taiwan is that China has consistently stated that it is going to invade Taiwan at some point (and that could be 2049 or in a few years for all we know). This is completely outside of any hypothetical scenarios of…

> Who is threatening Japan with cruise missiles? Certainly not China or Russia. North Korea, perhaps.

China. Japan cooperates with AUKUS [1]. If Xi invades Taiwan, it's going to pull in America, Britain, Australia and–in all likelihood–Japan.

That said, we're more likely to see a recapitulation of the Ukraine playbook than direct intervention by American and Japanese forces.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AUKUS

Re: Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

#390

Post by whimsicalism »

lovich wrote: post #375
whimsicalism wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You mean "a very slightly bigger half of them", right? Closer to 83% but I agree it has probably trended substantially downward in recent months. > Nah, my thesis is that Russia started with it immediately. Why didn't they do this mass murder in Crimea or Donetsk once they got effective control?

I mean, murdering and cremating isn’t the only bit of genocide. They’ve also bern taking Ukrainian children and adopting them out to Russian families, and filtrating out Ukrainian adults across Russia. At the beginning and through most of the invasion they Russian stance was that Ukrainians are a fake people and don’t actually exist. If I was getting invaded by a group saying my people weren’t real I probably wouldn’…

Clearly denying Ukrainian identity & culture is part of the Russian project here and is linked to forced relocation/adoption.

My question was merely on the claim that Russia desired to murder & cremate some >1% of the Ukrainian population.

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