Kanye West is buying Parler • Hacker News Board

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#381

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 4:41 PM UTC

mariusor wrote: post #372

eropple wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think that a platform where people expect the ugly ideas to be debated (in good faith) will have the users that are willing to do that[1]. This does not actually...happen. At least not over the medium and long term. What actually happens, and you can see this in practice, is that decent people are not particularly interested, over long periods of time, in arguing that no, there is no globalist (read: Jewish) cons…

I disagree with you. I think that the phenomenon that you described (which exists on most social platforms that are advertising themselves as "free speech") is not present everywhere and my impression is that the problem is exactly with the "chase all the users" mentality. One example that I can think of the top of my head is Scott Alexander's blog, where I saw opinions put forward (most of the times in a respectful…

[deleted]

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#382

Post by aerostable_slug » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 4:42 PM UTC

P0l83q4p1Hw3Ul wrote: post #346

detaro wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Kanye West saying that he suffers from bipolar disorder is a rumor.

People with bipolar disorder aren't capable of making rational decisions? And Elon is just a completely normal guy?

> People with bipolar disorder aren't capable of making rational decisions?

In the midst of an uncontrolled manic episode? Often they are not.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#383

Post by OJFord » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 4:43 PM UTC

MockObject wrote: post #341

OJFord wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's linked ('unaired segments of the interview') in the submitted article: https://www.vice.com/en/article/3ad77y/kanye-west-tucker-car... Bizarre. In a way, good on them for editing the weirdest stuff out... But really probably shouldn't have used any of it when someone's so clearly in such a bad state? I mean it really is just driving clicks/views/profit from someone's poor health, in a nasty sort of way (i.e. not…

A celebrity says some things that make sense, and some things that don't, and it's nasty profiteering to report on the former? That really seems a bit extreme to me.

I didn't watch it or anything, so I'm definitely biased by only having read an article about 'even more unhinged bits leaked' as it were, but wasn't it all a bit sensational? Depends what you call 'makes sense' I suppose, I think one perhaps needs a higher bar when it's in the context of such a conversation, where other things are clearly paranoia; if he's clearly not 'himself', why should someone else get to judge which bits 'make sense' 'enough'?

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#384

Post by fckgw » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 4:43 PM UTC

impowski wrote: post #19

I mean you can say “men are trash”, “white people are trash” and so on, but at the same time you are not allowed to say anything against jewish people or other people? Isn’t it kinda hypocritical? Maybe we should not allow toxic behavior at all and have a civil discourse about someone is feeling towards some group of people to allow him to change his mind? Personal attacks and hatred will not do any good this will on…

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Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#385

Post by madeofpalk » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 4:44 PM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #104

madeofpalk wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring ID verification is adding limitations on who you permit to speak. It is inherently anti 'free speech'. I think it's fine if that's the sort of website you want to build (twitter at the moment is not a free speech maximalist), but don't pretend that doing this doesn't limit speech.

> Requiring ID verification is adding limitations on who you permit to speak Do you mean that in countries where not everyone has government ID? That's not an issue, the government doesn't have to be the authority of ID. Besides, governments can create fake IDs for covert operations anyway. I don't suggest that everyone should connect to the internet with government issued ID card.

I struggle with how else to phrase this - Adding restrictions inherently restricts people.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#386

Post by rvz » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 4:44 PM UTC

houstonn wrote: post #259

tptacek wrote: post #117

This is really a story about a celebrity's mental illness and public breakdown. If you haven't been following the news, West has spent the week saying increasingly unhinged things, not just about politics but about Pete Davidson, his wife, and (if I'm remembering right) his kids and the fake actor children that have been installed in his former home to corrupt them. He was interviewed for a show on Fox and a big chun…

It's more of a story of a famous artist who thinks for himself and has been marginalized for years as a result. Every time he says something that deviates from the accepted narrative, he is attacked and dismissed as "crazy", "insane", "sick". Many non-normative geniuses throughout history have been treated in this manner. Before anyone strawmans this, he does occasionally say things that should be condemned, particul…

Correct. The responses around this are absolutely pathetic, and many of them believe that he is unable to think for himself because he is buying Parler. So what if he is buying it. I'd say good for him, he can rebrand it if he wants to.

Did the self-proclaimed HN doctors question his decision to collaborate with Adidas, Nike, etc by becoming a fashion designer with his Yezzy label which made him a billionaire? They didn't care in the first place; but because of Parler now they care?

> 1. He has been systematically marginalized and labeled as "crazy" every time he presents an alternative viewpoint. This has been going on for years.

> 2. He overcorrects when placed in a box. The more people try to control him, the more he tries to break out of that box by being purposefully provocative.

Well the same people who are calling him "crazy", "insane", "sick" are the same who believe everything that is said by the media. You go against the media narrative and they will punish you. Criticising and exposing some of the media's lies and the cancelling will happen and Ye knows that.

This also explains the unexplained downvotes because it is all true.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#387

Post by zamadatix » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 4:44 PM UTC

seanw444 wrote: post #377

Hey guys, I have an idea: why don't we try building free-speech protocols rather than free-speech platforms? Humans are fallible. We like to think we could build something where people can talk freely, but if the ability to censor something we don't like is presented, at some point nearly everybody will take that action because they personally deem it necessary for some greater good. Ultimately, protocols that cannot…

Protocols to exchange free speech already exist. The hard part is doing something most people consider useful with them without turning yourself into a platform.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#388

Post by dcow » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 4:44 PM UTC

jslaD wrote: post #175

dcow wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

4chan does not have the concept of “Internet points”. Are you thinking Reddit?

No. I'm talking about 4chan.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#389

Post by ok_dad » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 4:44 PM UTC

LatteLazy wrote: post #380

thedougd wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can try to disincentivize private censorship, but unlikely to stop it. I believe the primary argument is forcing these companies to publish speech is a violation of their own free speech.

Right now section 230 means you can censor without censoring perfectly and not get sued. Repealing it means Facebook are liable for anything posted there IF the censor at all. So Facebook either gives up all censorship (free speech!), or gives up all user driven content (unlikely). That's just civil law, the constitutional right to free speech doesn't cover getting sued for it. Even if it does apply to corporations r…

Or just stop doing business in {STATE}.

Edit: I previously referred to Texas (re: the comment about laws being passed there, which I think refer to those to restrict de-platforming). What I meant with this comment was more like "if a state passes a law like Texas, it might be easier not to do business there than to comply," which obviously wouldn't work if section 230 was defanged or repealed. I don't think that would ever happen, but who knows.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#390

Post by logicalmonster » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 4:44 PM UTC

How could an average outside observer distinguish between another's mental illness and a guy who's just a real out of the box thinker who might be wrong about many ideas but might also add value to the world by perceiving reality in an atypical way?

A lot of posters are claiming Kanye is mentally ill and unable to manage his own affairs. What is the direct evidence of this? And I don't simply mean "provide examples of opinions he's said that I don't understand or care for".

I think it's pretty dangerous to be labeling people involved in the national dialogue as mentally ill without a diagnosis, or at least some substantial and direct evidence. This label could be weaponized by an authoritarian political movement in a very dangerous way if that's the precedent we're using.