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Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

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Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#381

Post by VBprogrammer »

greedo wrote: post #271
VBprogrammer wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a someone on YouTube who works driving HGVs for a large vehicle recycling company in the UK. I'm often surprised by the cars that are considered end of life. Cars which I still think of as recent models. It would be great to see some statistics but to me most of the cars he picks up require some kind of major repair work making it uneconomical to fix. Often not the engine admittedly, the vast majority can dr…

I live in the Midwest (US) and all I see is cars rotting. Cars under 5 years where the owner doesn't take care of the paint (wash/wax etc) and the wheel wells start to rust off. I even play a game with my kids where we watch for "Pavement Princess" trucks that have rust.

I've had a good look around my local area and very few of the cars have any visible rust. We have a fairly mild climate in South East England but we do use salt on the roads in winter time.

Of the two vehicles with any noticeable rust, one is a '05 Mercedes Sprinter, these seem to be predisposed to rust. The other was a T registered (1999) Land Rover Discovery but even that has obviously been modified for off-road use so it's hardly fair to include it.

I wonder if this is climate related or US cars are not built with the same rust treatment.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#382

Post by CaptainZapp »

zamalek wrote: post #207
logicalmonster wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fit and finish has absolutely collapsed in recent Apple software. Bugginess abounds more than ever in Apple's software, and I'd love for them to take a cycle off and just work on fit and finish and bugs rather than features. But to be fair, if you're judging against the experience of using Windows, well let's just say that's a low bar to beat. As far as Linux desktops go, I think the way they run very solidly these…

> judging against the experience of using Windows, well let's just say that's a low bar to beat. Honestly, even with all the bullshit that Microsoft has been pulling, this isn't really true. I have used all three extensively in the past year (Windows since I was a teenager, switched to Linux only for 1 year, work has had me on an Apple device for 6 months). Linux just works. Windows usually just works, if you can ign…

> if you can ignore their asinine "features" such as adverts and Edge nags

Ads can thankfully be switched of (at least as of now). As for the Edge nags that's really rich. Especially since it happens in such a slimy way. Indicating in an underhanded way that your browser settings are insecure.

Else than that Windows works mostly fine since XP. Even with Vista I didn't have that much of a hate relationship as the general vitriol would suggest.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#383

Post by thiht »

pGuitar wrote: post #250
boxed wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides them inventing the modern smart phone and revolutionizing an industry? What did the romans ever do for US? :P

They did start the phones as we know them today.... but better Android ones with slide out keyboards came out soon after

> better Android ones with slide out keyboards

That's the weirdest thing I've read in a while. No one cares about that.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#384

Post by samatman »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #363
samatman wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you read the engine part wrong. The battery pack was recalled and its replacement has logged 1,000,000 km. Similarly, three of the four motors were all recalled at the same time, the fourth one wasn't and made it to 1,000,000 km, possibly 1,500,000 as well, the article says they don't know. Parts which are recalled and replaced by the manufacturer say something about reliability, but nothing about durability:…

> The Tesla Model S P85 is a single-motor, rear-wheel-drive car. High power and torque was an issue in the early Teslas, which caused a few motor replacements. Three units were replaced by 680,000 km and the fourth one was running up to 1,000,000 km. Not sure how you read that as 3 motors where replaced at the same time. It would be somewhat pointless given that the Model S only has a single motor. Three were replace…

I take it back, it was me, not you, who read it wrong. I had remembered the Model S as being a quad motor vehicle, incorrectly.

Accordingly, I'll grant that this isn't a good example of an EV making it past the million-mile mark. I've made the case elsewhere for why it's not such a crazy thing to expect.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#385

Post by AlotOfReading »

jononomo wrote: post #376
AlotOfReading wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw my share of Toyota Prius's and light trucks when I was working in Central Asia/Siberia, but I'm not sure it's relevant to the apple car discussion. It's generally thought that project titan is an electric vehicle (and my limited knowledge of the project from their various efforts to recruit me supports this), nor are ruggedized products Apple's traditional market. Offroad capabilities also don't make much sense…

The self-driving thing is still 20 years away.

Like many things, it's a question of definitions. There are already cars on the road operating commercial autonomous services. It's new and immmature, but in a very real sense "self-driving" is already here. L5 or offroad might still be decades out from initial introduction.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#386

Post by greedo »

taylodl wrote: post #379
greedo wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market for that (in terms of $$) would be a rounding error when compared to what they make on the AppleTV.

You may be right but I wonder how such a market would compare to MacBooks? I wonder what the margins are? I think it's a big market and I don't see the so-called Big Four motorcycle manufacturers as being able to garner the public sentiment needed to tackle it. Apple could make it an extension of their environmental programs. Just a thought.

Well, MacBooks are the majority of Macs sold. 1Q of 2022, Apple sold roughly 3 million Macs. Figure an average of $1000 per Mac (which is low, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ), that's almost $3B. Now Apple no longer breaks out product sales, so this is market research data, but it's probably safe to figure the annual Mac market at around $10B.

I can't see scooters being a big market at all, at least not at the margins Apple likes.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#387

Post by misterprime »

misterprime wrote: post #253
cercatrova wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> these days > age-old Sienna Interesting dichotomy there. I have a modern Toyota and BlueTooth works just fine.

My wife has a previous gen RAV4. I have a current gen Corolla Hybrid. The interface is VERY similar. However, she has a physical play/pause button on her RAV4 while my Corolla does not. This is INCREDIBLY frustrating because when you start the car, it MIGHT automatically resume your media. Sometimes this is OK, but other times, it is interrupting a conversation and losing your spot in the podcast you're listening to.…

I forgot to mention, it's even worse! There is still a perfectly usable, unused button available to be a play/pause button! There are two knobs, each press-able. The one on the right does nothing when you press it. It SHOULD be the physical play/pause button and I have no idea why it's not.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#388

Post by VBprogrammer »

samatman wrote: post #384
VBprogrammer wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Tesla Model S P85 is a single-motor, rear-wheel-drive car. High power and torque was an issue in the early Teslas, which caused a few motor replacements. Three units were replaced by 680,000 km and the fourth one was running up to 1,000,000 km. Not sure how you read that as 3 motors where replaced at the same time. It would be somewhat pointless given that the Model S only has a single motor. Three were replace…

I take it back, it was me, not you, who read it wrong. I had remembered the Model S as being a quad motor vehicle, incorrectly. Accordingly, I'll grant that this isn't a good example of an EV making it past the million-mile mark. I've made the case elsewhere for why it's not such a crazy thing to expect.

Thanks for your candour. For what it's worth I absolutely agree with you fundamentally there is no reason an EV shouldn't be able to make the million mile mark with only modest maintenance (perhaps having to replace individual components of the motors, perhaps a bearing for example). Fundamentally they don't have points of sliding friction, this makes wear and reliability much easier to achieve.

What impact this would have on the battery is an interesting question but with modern temperature control and BMS systems it may not even be a deal-breaker.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#389

Post by dhosek »

smaudet wrote: post #335
dhosek wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last few times I’ve rented a car it’s had CarPlay and based on those experiences, the next time I buy a car, it must have CarPlay. The experience without it is just so poor (and don’t get me started on how ridiculously bad the experience of pairing bluetooth is in my parent’s car which requires a mix of voice commands and button presses in a completely undiscoverable way).

Eh I've had decent experiences with BT in cars, there are some truly terrible implementations out there though. My current vehicle doesn't have a functional BT connection, because some idiot put it behind a voice activation (and the mic broke). I don't think this is the long term future, though - I've seen it work really well, if consumers actually start caring about how to connect to their cars it will work better.…

My experience with CarPlay has been rock solid in four different cars from four different manufacturers. I was able to connect in about a minute in every case (the longest time for connection was the first rental car with CarPlay where I didn’t realize it was there until I plugged my phone into the USB jack to charge—this was in 2018 and it was wired CarPlay).

In contrast, the BlueTooth in the car that I own typically takes about half a block to a block’s driving before it actually connects to my phone, occasionally refuses to connect or will pair but not send audio. There’s some weird interaction between Overcast and the car’s Bluetooth that means that if I’m listening to a podcast when I turn off the car, I need to restart Overcast before it will send audio to any output (including the car when I get back in).

I don’t understand the “you must sign your soul for in blood” claim, unless you’re an open source absolutist (or maybe Android Auto is really bad, I don’t know), but your claims don’t match my experience.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#390

Post by tobyjsullivan »

harryVic wrote: post #359
BluSyn wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing to me how short-sighted many views on Apple Car are. Service is key. Apple won't be following the model of the existing car makers. They WILL NOT sell cars direct to consumer. That's the key insight. They will not have showrooms, sales teams, or public service centers. You won't buy their cars directly at all. Instead, they are going for the end goal: Fully autonomous electric vehicles on-demand. This is…

I don't think the company that built Apple maps can build a level 5 autonomous car.

While I don't know if anyone can build L5, it's worth noting that Apple products seem to have more ML per square inch than any other products in the world. The fact that most people aren't aware of how much ML they are using on a daily basis is really just an indication of how good Apple is at it. If (big if) the future of the automobile is ML-centric, I think Apple is probably of the top players.

Re: Apple Maps - I don't use it. However, it's safe to say the only two players in maps are Google and Apple. Same for ML, generally, and probably autonomous cars.

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