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Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

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Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#381

Post by KptMarchewa »

naasking wrote: post #314
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same criticism still works, though. I can like their position for negotiating with Amazon today, without necessarily having to agree that I'm going to like it forever. Mind you, I'm not necessarily on Amazon's side here. Their scare-mongering is pretty slimy, to say no more. But IMTDb's objection is valid, even adjusted for your criticism.

That's true of any system based on democratic rule. It's not much of a criticism because it's still better than anything else that we've come up with.

At least in Poland there can be multiple unions in same company. Then, you can choose one that represents your views best

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#382

Post by SyzygistSix »

bamboozled wrote: post #163
justinzollars wrote: post #140

If you really cared, cancel your amazon accounts. 148 Prime users upvoted this article.

Can't we have prime and have people paid sufficiently too?

Perhaps we can. It is certainly easy enough to both cancel Prime service and to resubscribe to it.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#383

Post by ppsreejith »

naasking wrote: post #316
smugma wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon has significantly increased wages. They were at the forefront of the $15 wage, more than double the federal minimum wage. I think at the time Walmart was at $10 or $11. I live in very liberal SF but outside of my bubble, I hear people complain that it’s not possible to hire Nannies/housecleaners/employees anymore when Amazon and Starbucks pay $18/hr. Seems like the answer is easy: pay them more or make the job…

> Amazon has significantly increased wages. They were at the forefront of the $15 wage Warehouse workers before Amazon were making over $20/hr. Amazon seriously depressed wages for that kind of work. How do you think they got so profitable and outcompeted everyone else in that space?

Could you share a source for this? Couldn't find much after a bit of googling.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#384

Post by throwaway894345 »

IIAOPSW wrote: post #379
tablespoon wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you taking about?

From context, I assume an incident involving someone crossing state lines or not to recruit Union members, which has relevant implications for which laws and legal jurisdictions are applicable.

No, it’s about a recent, popular self-defense case in which many people wanted the victim to be found guilty, and they would talk about how he “crossed state lines” as though crossing state lines was some ominous, evil thing. This “crossed state lines” rhetoric was even parroted by the media, and eventually it became a meme as people used it sarcastically.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#385

Post by dragonwriter »

pydry wrote: post #380
dragonwriter wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pmc and workers aren’t allies The so-called “professional managerial class” is (1) not a class, and (2) a grouping that cuts across the proletariat and petit bourgeiosie (and is largely contained within the intelligentsia component of those classes.) (Its basically an American-Left resurrection of the Leninist critique of the behavior of the intelligentsia, divorced from the theory in which that critique was ground…

PMC is pretty much exclusively bourgeoisie and petit bourgeoisie. The exercise of control over capital/means of production (what defines PMC) isnt exactly the same thing as ownership but it's closer to that than only being able to offer labor. It's not uncommon for it to be better. PMCs (e.g. C level execs) of major corporations a often make out better than shareholders.

> PMC is pretty much exclusively bourgeoisie and petit bourgeoisie

As usually defined (where by the 2010s it accounted for more than a third of American jobs), it's not. It's mostly proletarians, a bit of it is in the petit bourgeois, and a numerically irrelevant or even smaller numerically irrelevant slice is in the haut bourgeoisie (it's not clear to me if the upper end of the usual understanding includes the haut bourgeois who incidentally have the kind of job usually ascribed to the “class” but for whom it is not particular job reflects rather than is in any way necessary to the power they exercise over capital, but it makes little difference either way.)

The whole purpose of the designation, within Leftist discourse, is to identify and growing (even at the time first identified) segment of the wage-labor force as class enemies of the proletariat by inventing a new class label to apply to them, so as to justify why they aren't targets for solidarity efforts.

> PMCs (e.g. C level execs) of major corporations a often make out better than shareholders.

C-level execs of major corps aren't typical members of the PMC “class” by a long shot.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#386

Post by UncleMeat »

School-Cotton wrote: post #179
tjpnz wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone would get 213 dollars a year extra if just their CEO didn't receive any compensation. Amazon employs approximately 1 million people in the United States and Andy Jassy received 213 million total comp in 2021.

So, practically none.

Better off in Jassy's pockets then?

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#387

Post by danaris »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #315
kennywinker wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you’re saying the lack of anonymity will inflate support for a union. I.e. organizers will be able to pressure people who would otherwise vote no on a union. Frankly, I’d be worried about the opposite. Knowing how aggressively amazon is fighting unions, if I worked there i’d hesitate to put my name down on paper - when I wouldn’t hesitate to vote in a secret ballot. If that’s the case, 50% support impli…

Historically, there have been times when intimidation came from the union. There have also been times when intimidation came from management. So, yeah. Secret ballot.

There have indeed, historically, been cases where a union threw its weight around, bullied, and abused people.

However, a huge percentage of companies today are actively doing these things to their workers, and if you selected 10 companies at random where there were unionization efforts, I'd bet you money that in at least 9 of them, management was doing everything they could legally, and probably some things that are questionable or outright illegal, to try to prevent unionization.

Stop the "both sides"-ism. It's disingenuous and detrimental to genuine understanding of the situation.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#388

Post by danaris »

alistairSH wrote: post #234
peyton wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contract and agreement are not synonyms. Contracts require consideration.

Sure, but the larger point, that employees have employment contracts in at-will states, is still true.

Some employees have contracts.

My workplace doesn't have them except for employees that are part of bargaining units (ie, the ones represented by unions). Sadly, I am not one of these; my employment is contract-free.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#389

Post by brianwawok »

naasking wrote: post #316
smugma wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon has significantly increased wages. They were at the forefront of the $15 wage, more than double the federal minimum wage. I think at the time Walmart was at $10 or $11. I live in very liberal SF but outside of my bubble, I hear people complain that it’s not possible to hire Nannies/housecleaners/employees anymore when Amazon and Starbucks pay $18/hr. Seems like the answer is easy: pay them more or make the job…

> Amazon has significantly increased wages. They were at the forefront of the $15 wage Warehouse workers before Amazon were making over $20/hr. Amazon seriously depressed wages for that kind of work. How do you think they got so profitable and outcompeted everyone else in that space?

Only been in a few rando warehouses, and I think the reason is most rando warehouses are inefficient. One worker may ship 15 packages an hour. I bet the Amazon packages per worker per hour is multiple times higher.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#390

Post by filoleg »

pseudo0 wrote: post #343
filoleg wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are private military contractors related to Kroger workers, and why are they expected (or not) to be allies in the first place?

Professional-managerial class. Basically people with white collar jobs who have more sway than the working class due to professional moats (university degrees, accreditations) and more influence on society due to controlling to some degree how capital is deployed. The point here is that getting blacklisted is probably a much scarier prospect for the manager. PMC jobs typically have more stringent reference checks and…

Ah, makes sense, thanks for clarifying. I was suspecting that it wasn't referring to private military contractors here, but googling didn't net much in terms of an alternative that would fit there.
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