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Does the Tank Have a Future?

economist.com

381–390 of 490 posts

Re: Does the Tank Have a Future?

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My point is that we should all be fighting against war. By what, asking nicely?

Yes. Be very persuasive. But restrict yourself to persuasion. The way is for the antiwar people to be more successful than warriors and turn war into the losers' choice. I refuse to arm myself, refuse to serve in militaries and refuse to support war as much as i am able. If antiwar people are successful, war will evolve out.

[deleted]

Re: Does the Tank Have a Future?

#382

It's clear that this is an exciting topic for techies. But keep in mind what this all is made for: Destroying and killing. We are talking about war machinery, and technical discussions about those tend to romanticize all that technology much too often. If we'd only pour 10% of the investments that today goes into war machinery into peace research and conflict prevention, then this world would be a much safer place. T…

> If we'd only pour 10% of the investments that today goes into war machinery into peace research and conflict prevention, then this world would be a much safer place.

If you get everyone to decide this, yes.

But if you do this and your aggressive neighbor doesn't, your decision to forgo military spending can make the world less safe. Some parts of Europe are remembering this now.

Re: Does the Tank Have a Future?

#383

A comically silly question. I bet 99% of HN has played a game with Class called or refered to as "tank." Its not a matter of do tanks have a future just what the format will be. Even in a made up fantasy games the concept of a military unit with heavy armoring is always going to have a place. Same as real life.

fantasy worlds rarely have an equivalent of a 'rods from god' type weapon.

the future of warfare , according to most of the RAND papers i've read, is in cheap/commodity available 'nodes' , part of a 'system of systems' that can all interconnect cheaply and provide good data without being valuable assets themselves.

in a future where any group can destroy any one thing quickly and without hopes of defense (hypersonic missiles, for example) it becomes increasingly more risky and less valuable to shove a lot of effort and value into a single strong piece of equipment -- 'distributed warfare' is going to become increasingly common, and it's one of the few strategies that remains viable in a future without sufficient anti-air defenses.

Re: Does the Tank Have a Future?

#384

It's clear that this is an exciting topic for techies. But keep in mind what this all is made for: Destroying and killing. We are talking about war machinery, and technical discussions about those tend to romanticize all that technology much too often. If we'd only pour 10% of the investments that today goes into war machinery into peace research and conflict prevention, then this world would be a much safer place. T…

> If we'd only pour 10% of the investments that today goes into war machinery into peace research and conflict prevention, then this world would be a much safer place. If you get everyone to decide this, yes. But if you do this and your aggressive neighbor doesn't, your decision to forgo military spending can make the world less safe. Some parts of Europe are remembering this now.

You seem to have missed the "investment into peace research and conflict prevention" part of my post. Ironically, that's the part that you quoted.

Re: Does the Tank Have a Future?

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean has it changed the calculus on the battlefield for tanks? Ukraine are pleading for, and using, mostly anti tank missiles to destroy Russia's tanks, aren't they? Why if swarms of expendable drones are better and cheaper?

I think it did pretty decisively in the war between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

In what way that missiles could not have?

Re: Does the Tank Have a Future?

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we'd only pour 10% of the investments that today goes into war machinery into peace research and conflict prevention, then this world would be a much safer place. If you get everyone to decide this, yes. But if you do this and your aggressive neighbor doesn't, your decision to forgo military spending can make the world less safe. Some parts of Europe are remembering this now.

You seem to have missed the "investment into peace research and conflict prevention" part of my post. Ironically, that's the part that you quoted.

oh so another military program. only half kidding

Re: Does the Tank Have a Future?

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we'd only pour 10% of the investments that today goes into war machinery into peace research and conflict prevention, then this world would be a much safer place. If you get everyone to decide this, yes. But if you do this and your aggressive neighbor doesn't, your decision to forgo military spending can make the world less safe. Some parts of Europe are remembering this now.

You seem to have missed the "investment into peace research and conflict prevention" part of my post. Ironically, that's the part that you quoted.

Thousands of years of peace research have shown that some conflicts can only be prevented by the peaceful side being better prepared for war.

Re: Does the Tank Have a Future?

#388

The war in Ukraine doesn't provide sufficient evidence that modern combined arms operations are outdated. Russia deployed combat troops significantly short on man power, leading to a situation where attacks had far more armor than infantry. See https://warontherocks.com/2022/06/not-built-for-purpose-the-... for example. It's been known since the Spanish Civil War that tanks are vulnerable to anti-tank teams when not…

[deleted]

Re: Does the Tank Have a Future?

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we'd only pour 10% of the investments that today goes into war machinery into peace research and conflict prevention, then this world would be a much safer place. If you get everyone to decide this, yes. But if you do this and your aggressive neighbor doesn't, your decision to forgo military spending can make the world less safe. Some parts of Europe are remembering this now.

You seem to have missed the "investment into peace research and conflict prevention" part of my post. Ironically, that's the part that you quoted.

Your criticism is itself ironic, since you missed the point of my own comment.

The "we" in your original statement is doing a lot of work.

Re: Does the Tank Have a Future?

#390
post #377
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. The key point is, a weapon system becomes obsolete when something else does its job better, not when it becomes more vulnerable. When something valuable becomes more vulnerable, you protect it better. When it becomes less valuable because something else does the job better, then you get rid of it. As of right now, nothing does a ground offensive like a few dozen tanks advancing at top speed with appropriate supp…

There must have been _some_ intersections of time/technology and/or cost/efficiency where this didn't hold? Where a weapon system became _so_ vulnerable that, despite being the best at its job, it still wasn't good enough. As an example, is there a point where hypersonic weapons become so effective that aircraft carriers are [temporarily?] retired? Surely the cost (time, money, human lives) that goes into the weapon…

With Russia fielding hypersonic weapons now, could you imagine if they threaten the US with "Send arms to Ukraine, we sink your aircraft carriers"? In that sense, hypersonic missiles may replace much more costly to maintain and much harder to deploy nuclear weapons.

In fact, it looks like the US has 11 active aircraft carriers [1]. It seems that they are all near port right now [2], this might be the reason.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_carriers_of_t... [2] https://www.marinevesseltraffic.com/vessels/USS-George-H.W.-...

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