Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 427 posts

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#381

Post by jacobolus »

ghostwriter wrote: post #364
jacobolus wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people in the USA agree that the Iraq war was a senseless tragedy fought on false pretenses, and a gross violation of international law. Iraq posed no threat to the USA, the USA had no good reason to invade, and the outcomes of the war were tremendously destructive and destabilizing. If it were up to me, the perpetrators would be locked up. If nothing else, the Iraq war led to a sharp political change in the USA…

> The 1999 apartment bombings in Russia attributed to Khattab (among others) were most likely a false flag operation undertaken by the Russian state security service, under orders from Vladimir Putin. right, and in line with this level of evidence and argumentation, 9-11 in the US was presumably organised and conducted by a joint operation between the Pentagon and FBI.

“This level of evidence” is pretty significant, though the Russian government did a thorough enough cover-up that it’s hard to meet a strict burden of proof from publicly available information. Unless secret documents are someday published, the public will probably never see a convincing conclusion about what happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings#Rus...

https://www.gq.com/story/moscow-bombings-mikhail-trepashkin-...

> 9-11 in the US was presumably organised and conducted by a joint operation between the Pentagon and FBI

This is not very plausible given the extensive available evidence about the plane hijackers and their biographies. More plausible (though still unproven) is speculation about the role of Saudi elite. Zacarias Moussaoui claimed in a deposition that major donors to Al Qaeda included “Prince Turki al-Faisal, then the Saudi intelligence chief; Prince Bandar Bin Sultan, the longtime Saudi ambassador to the United States; Prince al-Waleed bin Talal, a prominent billionaire investor; and many of the country’s leading clerics.” (quotation from NYT) Of course, while he had the access to know about what happened, Moussaoui is not the most credible source.

In the US where free speech is protected, those who made various claims and conspiracy theories about the September 11 attacks (Bush did it! Israel did it! The CIA did it! etc.) didn’t get locked up or murdered, unlike the people investigating or raising questions about the Russian apartment bombings. For instance, Artyom Borovik, Anna Politkovskaya, and Alexander Litvinenko, all of whom were assassinated https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artyom_Borovik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Politkovskaya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#382

Post by jacobolus »

twelve40 wrote: post #374
jacobolus wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people in the USA agree that the Iraq war was a senseless tragedy fought on false pretenses, and a gross violation of international law. Iraq posed no threat to the USA, the USA had no good reason to invade, and the outcomes of the war were tremendously destructive and destabilizing. If it were up to me, the perpetrators would be locked up. If nothing else, the Iraq war led to a sharp political change in the USA…

> most likely a false flag operation you are deflecting from the question: > Would you be willing to accommodate similar kind of characters in your country of origin Khattab and his friends like Basayev and other "freedom fighters" have a long and undisputed history of butchering civilians that they were proud of. Taking a maternity ward hostage, or beheading western communication engineers, or, say, stuffing an elem…

> shot like rabid dogs at all cost

In the USA, violent groups are treated as a law enforcement problem, unless direct police violence is necessary to prevent them from harming someone. Extremists who commit local crimes are arrested and prosecuted, and afforded all of the normal protections of the legal system.

For example, the Oklahoma City bombers Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols were tried and sentenced to death and life imprisonment, respectively. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

There is a chance domestic terrorists could be let off based on prosecutorial incompetence or sympathy, jurors’ personal beliefs, or a future executive pardon, but going through a legal process is much better than extrajudicial assassination.

The US government has plenty of skeletons in its closet, but there is nothing in its recent history close to the annihilation of Grozny. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(1999–2000)

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#383

Post by themitigating »

ozzythecat wrote: post #359
themitigating wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So "do this or we'll invade"? Why does it matter if a NATO country is on the border anyway? In the age of ICBMs, stealth bombers, and drones is the real concern that some large NATO force would march over the border for a land invasion of Russia?

> Why does it matter if a NATO country is on the border anyway? This question, no matter how well intentioned, is irrelevant. Russia views NATO as an existential threat. It’s irrelevant whether you agree with that NATO is such a threat or not. Russia does not want NATO on or by its borders. They’ve been making this clear since the collapse of the Soviet Union. You can disagree with them, argue in favor of NATO expand…

It's not a surprise but it's still wrong. Also his opinion that NATO is a threat needs to have some backing otherwise I don't accept it as a valid fear

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#384

Post by dang »

TMWNN wrote: post #361
jacobolus wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump was literally impeached for secretly withholding congressionally appropriated military aid to Ukraine and then extorting the Ukrainian president to make up a fake scandal about his political opponent in return for keeping aid flowing. Several of Trump’s top advisors/officials were directly corruptly involved with previous Russian puppet leaders of Ukraine and corrupt pro-Russia Ukrainian oligarchs, notably Paul…

Quoted post unavailable.

Would you please stop breaking the site guidelines? Posting aggressively like this is totally not ok, and it also looks like you've been using HN primarily for political/ideological battle, which is against the rules regardless of your politics or your ideology.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#385

Post by sofixa »

legitster wrote: post #32
suetoniusp91 wrote: post #6

What is this "Food Crisis" they speak of?

Food prices in Africa and the Middle East have skyrocketed as a result of Russian sanctions.

As a result of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, their destruction if Ukrainian agriculture, their blockade of Ukrainian ports, and sanctions on Russia (which don't cover foodstuffs)*

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#386

Post by sofixa »

ghostwriter wrote: post #357
sofixa wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what about Ukraine? Why should it's sovereignty be surrendered? Why are you blaming the victim of agression they didn't surrender? When else would you apply that same logic?

sovereignty is not surrendered by respecting the condition of avoiding all military bloc alliances, under which such sovereignty was granted initially [1]: "The Ukrainian SSR solemnly declares its intention to become a permanently neutral state in the future, which does not participate in military blocs and adheres to three non-nuclear principles: not to accept, produce or acquire nuclear weapons." [1] https://zakon-…

First, intention of Ukraine. Not "condition" for independence.

Second, that was also based on the promises made in the Budapest memorandum. Seeing that Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014, the situation is already drastically different. Ukraine's choice post-2014 were to surrender to Russia's whims, or try to find allies to protect it from future Russian incursions.

And third, the Ukrainian SSR had sovereignty before it declared independence ( nobody "granted it sovereignty"), de jure ( being a component of the USSR with at least nominal, if not real depending on the guys in Moscow, autonomy) and de facto.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#387

Post by sofixa »

klibertp wrote: post #299
sofixa wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what they said in Munich in 1938 - just give Hitler the Sudetenland, that would work and satisfy him, he'll stop after that. Appeasing dictators with delusions of grandeur simply doesn't work. It might buy you some time, but you better prepare during it.

Buying time is the same as saving thousands of lives. I would hardly say that means it doesn't work. Then there's the nuclear arsenal of NATO. Would Hitler attack Poland if it had nukes capable of putting an end to the Fuhrer himself, his Volk, and his Reich? From what I learned he wasn't suicidal until much later. Is Putin right now? Possibly, but I think he'd get assassinated long before his order to perform "speci…

> Buying time is the same as saving thousands of lives

How so? If you prepare for war in the meantime ( like Ukraine did between 2014 and now), yes, but otherwise i don't see anything but postponing that loss of lives.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#388

Post by somenameforme »

rasz wrote: post #339
somenameforme wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This [1] is a 1.5 minute video of NATO expansion since 1949. It was well understood that eastern expansion would, sooner or later, result in conflict with Russia (or the Soviet Union prior). We decided to not just poke the bear but to go cover our arse in honey and twerk in front of it with Aqua's Barbie Girl pumped up to 11. And of course it sounds nice to say sovereign nations ought be able to choose their own alli…

Except Putin himself calmly explained recently its all bullshit, the Nato expansion, Nazis, harasser Russian population, all lies. Putin is after "lost land and glory" https://www.businessinsider.com/putin-says-ukraine-war-seize... "Putin said on Thursday that the Ukraine invasion is about expanding Russian territory. Before, Putin insisted that Russia was freeing Ukraine from so-called Nazis and preventing genocide.…

They included a link [1] to their source. Always go to to the source! Helpfully enough, this one is even in English! All of their comments were taken from one section. Here it is:

"Peter the Great waged the Great Northern War for 21 years. On the face of it, he was at war with Sweden taking something away from it… He was not taking away anything, he was returning. This is how it was. The areas around Lake Ladoga, where St Petersburg was founded. When he founded the new capital, none of the European countries recognised this territory as part of Russia; everyone recognised it as part of Sweden. However, from time immemorial, the Slavs lived there along with the Finno-Ugric peoples, and this territory was under Russia’s control. The same is true of the western direction, Narva and his first campaigns. Why would he go there? He was returning and reinforcing, that is what he was doing.

Clearly, it fell to our lot to return and reinforce as well. And if we operate on the premise that these basic values constitute the basis of our existence, we will certainly succeed in achieving our goals."

He's obviously speaking by analogy about Ukraine without stating as much, but there's something much more specific he's referencing. This [2] is a map of Ukraine by native language, which is about as close as you can get to ethnicity. After the pro-Russian government in 2014 was overthrown, it's essentially those areas in red that declared their independence and have remained independent since.

[1] - http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/68606

[2] - https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2014/02/world/ukraine-di...

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#389

Post by somenameforme »

archagon wrote: post #367
cpursley wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that commodities matter and Russia has them in spades, is run by (mostly) competent people (notice I didn't say moral or ethical) and has many friends outside the west, including the most populous countries, their economy is not collapsing any time soon.

As someone who was born in the Soviet Union, has Russian friends and family, and has been observing Russia for decades... > is run by (mostly) competent people Citation needed.

What would you say of Russia's overall trajectory from the late 1990s to present times by most any quantifiable value: economy, security (as in personal safety), opportunity, and so on? I'm not trying to be snarky or rhetorical, and am asking out of genuine curiosity. I'm sure you know what I'm referencing and this tends to give me a quite positive view of the competence of Russian leadership, but I'm also an outsider and am certain there are things I'm missing or not considering.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#390

Post by colordrops »

Tade0 wrote: post #92
colordrops wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is interested in a protracted war in Ukraine to both make money for weapons and other supplies manufacturers, and to drain the Russian economy. The Ukraine war was precipitated by years of US machinations, despite media characterizations to the contrary.

Anyone living close enough to Russia can attest to the fact that this invasion is just an external consequence of their internal politics.

The situation is caused by a confluence of US policy and Russian policy. It's not an either-or situation. The complexity is immense.
Post reply on HN