Fresh – Next-gen web framework

Post by chrischen » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 6:14 PM UTC

ratww wrote: post #263

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been developing for the web since, well not quite 30 years ago (PHP isn’t even 30!), but let’s say 25 years ago. I’ve used so much different tech in those years that I have a pretty good sense of it, and I even contributed to the development of both PHP and React. And you are totally off base. Modern frameworks are far superior for building modern web apps than older serverside tech. Demands have changed and so…

While I completely agree with you (and also think that the grandparent post was a bit inflamatory), the argument here is not that newer technologies aren't better. The argument is that the techniques themselves were "forgotten" and are now being rediscovered. This is easily verifiable by people claiming that the term "Server Side Rendering" can't be retroactively applied, even though it unambiguously means what PHP u…

Post by kilburn » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 6:14 PM UTC

Existenceblinks wrote: post #292

kilburn wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydration only makes sense when you have a vdom that you have to "synchronize" with the initial state of the page (the html you got from the server). The act of performing this synchronization is what hydration is about (notice that this includes setting up event handlers too). What you do here is to reconcile the in-memory representation (vdom) with the actual contents of the page (the dom). In the jquery aprroach t…

So it's the same approach to generating html, except the part that belongs to client side (event/ui-state) is irrelevant to backend _anyway_. If you separate javascript code into 2 main parts, 1) what's only related to generating html 2) what's only related to DOM API, you get jQuery approach where on the back end javascript is just yet another backend language?

  const App = () => {
    // Client-side counter
    const [count, setCount] = useState(0);
    useEffect(() => {
      setTimeout(
        () => {setCount(count+1)},
        1000
      );
    }, [count, setCount]);

    // HTML-rendering part
    return (
      Count: {count}
    );
  }

  document.addEventListener('ready', () => {
    const count = document.getElementById('count');
    let value = 0;
    setInterval(() => {
      count.innerText = value++;
    }, 1000);
  });

Post by jchw » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 6:28 PM UTC

datalopers wrote: post #336

jchw wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really sad that this sort of attitude is common in Hacker News. I am not a huge fan of JS, but what I hate about this is not that it's critical of JS, but that it's clearly just a knee-jerk cynical reaction. This framework in question is not doing what PHP/Ruby frameworks were doing. Whether what it's doing is a good idea or not is neither here nor there, it's just simply that you aren't understanding what it is…

The fact that you think it’s materially different is amusing. The only “magic” here is injecting JS shims to handle bidirectional syncs for certain components (“islands” in their parlance). That is also something we’ve had for a very long time, though admittedly it was kludgy as hell two decades ago (ajax polling, SSE, long-polling, comet, etc).

Post by nindalf » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 6:33 PM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #384

nindalf wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Others have responded to the technical deficiencies in your comment. I’ll just say it’s a bit rich to be telling the developers of React - “all this can be done with a server side rendered PHP”. The developers of React are well aware of what PHP can do, because they work at a company with one of the largest PHP (-ish) codebases in the world. Almost all pages on Facebook were completely server rendered, but they’re gr…

The funny thing is as far as I know they still use PHP to render React (via embedded javascript interpreter) on the server.

Post by lewisflude » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 6:59 PM UTC

throwingrocks wrote: post #241

bartlomieju wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, Fresh already powers several websites https://deno.land/ , so it definitely has production use.

Ryan Dahl described it that way. He said it’s not something they’re really promoting or planning to utilize long term.