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Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

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Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#381

Post by pmyteh »

mb7733 wrote: post #343
Maursault wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for remote communities, small planes are an absolute necessity No problems there, so long as remote means not here, except lack of specifics. What remote communities have an absolute necessity for small planes? > Hobby flying is far from the only environmentally damaging thing that humans do only for entertainment. This is Whataboutism, a variant of the tu quoque fallacy, but it also has maybe a bit of Bandwagon fa…

>No problems there, so long as remote means not here, except lack of specifics. What remote communities have an absolute necessity for small planes? There are plenty in Northern Canada [1]. That is the only area I've been personally, but I imagine there are similar areas around the world. Possibly also of interest is bush flying in general [2]. > This is Whataboutism, a variant of the tu quoque fallacy, but it also h…

> The habit of name-dropping logically fallacies and thinking it is some kind of slam dunk is so cliche that it needs it's own name.

It's sometimes called the 'fallacy fallacy': the assertion that because the argument is fallacious the conclusions are also necessarily false (as opposed to potentially true but infelicitously argued).

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#382

Post by scottyah »

dangwu wrote: post #180
jaywalk wrote: post #31

Garmin's got a relatively new system called Autoland that is designed for this exact situation. It allows a plane to land simply by pushing one button. It will pick the nearest appropriate airport, communicate with ATC, and land the plane entirely on its own. It's pretty amazing technology: https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/article/garmin-autoland-thi...

Hasn't autopilot had "auto-land" technology for many years now? How is Garmin's different?

US military drones have been doing it for decades now.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#383

Post by cryptonector »

whimsicalism wrote: post #172
civil_engineer wrote: post #13

Pilot here. I'm floored that a person with no flying experience could put this airplane down without a scratch. Air traffic controllers are not necessarily pilots, but luckily, this one was a pilot and certified instructor. ATC and passenger worked through a stressful situation to produce an amazing outcome. Bravo!

Listening to the audio of the conversation, it doesn't seem like the passenger has no flying experience... At minimum they must have spent significant time around aviation or be ex-military. e: From another comment on Reddit > Examples: > The passenger knew what button to press on the yoke to transmit to ATC. > The passenger knew aviation phraseology and phonetics “333 Lima Delta”. > The passenger knew where the alti…

Where's the audio? TFA has very little of it.

EDIT: Never mind. You can find it downthread.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#384

Post by jessriedel »

NelsonMinar wrote: post #57

Video of the landing, it's very nicely done. https://twitter.com/aviationbrk/status/1524410837414391809

MP3 recording of the full conversation with air-traffic control: https://archive.liveatc.net/ht/kpbi-kfpr.mp3

Sadly, the landing instructions were given by cell phone and apparently weren't recorded.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#385

Post by jessriedel »

aasasd wrote: post #351
NelsonMinar wrote: post #57

Video of the landing, it's very nicely done. https://twitter.com/aviationbrk/status/1524410837414391809

To my noob eye, it seems that the person did absolutely no pitching to shave off the speed. That's the hard part, in my very limited experience with simulators. Dunno if this plane does usually need pitching, but I guess they were very lucky to have enough of the runway.

Yea. On the ATC recording they say how they are sending him to the largest nearby airport, which has runways big enough to land jumbo jets, so he'd have plenty of space. I'm sure making sure he'd have enough space to bleed off speed without any experience was on their mind.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#387

Post by knodi123 »

js2 wrote: post #8

Similar thing happened to Doug White in 2009 while in a twin-engine King Air 200. He had limited flight experience on single-engine Cessna 172s, but no flight experience on a King Air 200. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2009/april/14/u... Simulation of the flight set to ATC recordings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqPvVxxIDr0

If you've learned how to glance at airspeed, how to pitch for speed, and when to flare, you're 90% of the way there. Those are the hard parts you need practice for. Right? And everything else, ATC can talk you through. I mean, a King Air is going to have dual engine controls, but you only operate them both in sync. It will have manual gear, but you just need to find the control and activate it. I'm not that surprised an experienced cessna pilot could land a complex twin engine.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#388

Post by Johnny555 »

pilot7378535 wrote: post #305
tragictrash wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always said the reason we don't have flying cars yet is because people can't drive in 2D much less 3D. This gives me hope.

"Flying cars" made sense to me until I started flying. Now I think "driving airplanes" is the more appropriate phrase for what might be in the realm of possibility. For example: here's how you'd prepare to visit distant relatives with each vehicle: Car: load up however much weight you want, turn the keys and start driving. Low on gas? Just turn off at the next exit. Weather looks bad? Just drive slowly and carefully…

Couldn't most of that be done by computer? Weight sensors in the wheels can determine weight and balance, the computer can evaluate the weather and plot the course taking into account all of the factors you noted, including refueling stops and emergency airfields, and it can even run through the checklist for you.

About the only part of that it can't do is the visual inspection.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#389

Post by Johnny555 »

PeterisP wrote: post #269
tshaddox wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t 3D easier? There sure is a lot more room.

3D has the problem is that you can't just stop, wait and think if anything is totally weird. A self-driving car can pull over if it's confused, a self-flying plane can't.

Well, usually it can stop, but if it gets confused during road construction where there's no shoulder to pull off to and it just stops in the road, you run the risk of a truck rear-ending you.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#390

Post by MerelyMortal »

bluedays wrote: post #352
MerelyMortal wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You talked about reaction time, but not situational awareness. Thankfully there was not a car next to you that you would have otherwise swerved into.

To be honest I didn’t know if a car was on my right, but a front end collision is the most dangerous car crash you can get into. I still think it was a safe choice.

The backside of your car could have hit the frontside of a car next to you, causing you to spin, causing you to be t-boned on the driver-side.

Always have an "out": appropriate stopping distance, or a clear lane next to you (you have to make sure your mirrors are set-up properly so you don't have a blindspot, and you have to maintain situational awareness).

Too many people fixate on the car in front of them, and don't look at the traffic down the road. Too many people have their side-view mirrors set-up, creating blindspots.

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