Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year • Hacker News Board

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#381

Post by Melatonic » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 5:29 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #39

phil21 wrote: post #17

While it's anecdote, every single peer in bedside medical care I know without exception has either left the field, or has immediate plans to as soon as student loan debt is repaid. The few older medical professionals in my family are simply sticking out the last few years until they can retire early. This was generally the case prior to pandemic due to how poor the work environment has become, but the pandemic seems…

Insurance companies. Everything is controlled by insurance companies. You can’t do anything unless it’s exactly how insurance wants and only for what insurance will pay. It limits everything, including how every profession can be compensated simply because you can’t easily hire somebody for more than what insurance will pay for their services. You can, but the funds have to come from somewhere.

Offer to pay in cash and it is amazing how much better the customer service and general demeanour is from a medical office - it always blows me away. They must REALLY hate dealing all of the insurance BS.

I had not done an eye appointment in years and years because my vision is generally very good - I went in expecting to offer cash, negotiate, and generally play a bit of hardball. I was amazed when the front desk person IMMEDIATELY perked up, looked super happy, and started offering massive discounts before I even threw numbers out. The eye doctors as well were very enthusiastic.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#382

Post by inetknght » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 5:29 PM UTC

beezlebroxxxxxx wrote: post #357

kurthr wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked in Tech for many years at corporations large and small, I have seen companies run by Founders, by Sales, by Marketing, by Finance, by Engineering, and by Legal. Each had their plusses an minuses. Until I saw hospital nursing, I had never seen a company run by HR. Every decision starts and ends with HR. From hiring, to wages, to discipline and promotion, to IT and pay-roll, to reorganization and spending…

If you follow the history of HR departments in a lot of modern corporations you often see them operating as private in-house legal firms, and aggressively expanding their purview to include even actions at the executive level. The only thing most HR departments look out for is HR. Everything they do resolves around continuing or expanding the power of the HR department. Your comment on lack of leadership is spot on.…

> No one wants to be accountable.

That is American corporations in a nutshell. Outsource everything, put layers upon layers, and insulate yourself. Then when fecal matter hits the rotary you can put the blame on others and, at worst, you get fired and there's little to no worry about any sort of legal reprecussion because... well you weren't accountable for the problems in the first place!

It's a massive problem created from little cuts here and there with a few big lawsuits mixed in.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#383

Post by anon23anon » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 5:30 PM UTC

phil21 wrote: post #17

While it's anecdote, every single peer in bedside medical care I know without exception has either left the field, or has immediate plans to as soon as student loan debt is repaid. The few older medical professionals in my family are simply sticking out the last few years until they can retire early. This was generally the case prior to pandemic due to how poor the work environment has become, but the pandemic seems…

I'm sure this is the top comment b/c we as developers have basically lost our professional agency to do do nothings roles like project manager/project owner/"business people". It's frustrating. I've been in the game a long time. It was way more fun when the web was still new and for the most part didn't care a whole lot about tech.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#384

Post by bsedlm » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 5:30 PM UTC

hedora wrote: post #235

germinalphrase wrote: post #55

I have a close relation that works for one of the oldest pediatric hospitals in the country. It was recently revealed that they will be shuttering almost all pediatric services in the next year because they can 10x their profits by only serving elderly clients. The entire purpose of this organization was to provide pediatric healthcare, and it wasn’t losing money… Sometimes, it feels like we’re min-maxing ourselves t…

We’re facing some massive generational crises at this point, and it feels like the only solution is to wait for the current leadership to die off, and hope the gen x’ers fix it. The WWII generation fixed the ozone hole, but their kids didn’t lift a finger for global warming. Subsequent generations are scrambling to pick up the pieces for our kids, while crap like this, and our rapidly collapsing democracy keep sabota…

> We’re facing some massive generational crises at this point, and it feels like the only solution is to wait for the current leadership to die off, and hope the gen x’ers fix it.

oh man, I choose to laugh so I don't start crying hahaha.

I want to turn this into an argument of why age-reversal and other longevity research is such a bad idea (personally, I think it's kind of evil; but maybe I've seen too many villanous cartoon characters throwing everything under the bus so the can live forever).

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#385

Post by throttledagain2 » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 5:30 PM UTC

LordDragonfang wrote: post #255

xyzzyz wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. Patients in COVID have become downright mean. Add this to the problems nurses have management and doctors (who are often rude and arrogant) and it's a poor culture. The quality of the environment, from a mental health standpoint, is on the decline. Mean customers, and rude coworkers? I sympathize, but this is a reality in a lot of industries. I have no reason to believe that healthcare here is worse than average…

All customer-facing positions have to deal with rude customers. Very few of those positions specifically select for customers with a high correlation to selfish and/or antisocial conspiratorial behavior. Almost all COVID hospitalizations are unvaccinated, and there's a very large (if not majority) portion among that population that chose not to vaccinate for entirely selfish reasons, and another large portion who hav…

No post body was provided.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#386

Post by seabrookmx » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 5:31 PM UTC

bakuninsbart wrote: post #352

brightball wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance companies. Everything is controlled by insurance companies. You can’t do anything unless it’s exactly how insurance wants and only for what insurance will pay. It limits everything, including how every profession can be compensated simply because you can’t easily hire somebody for more than what insurance will pay for their services. You can, but the funds have to come from somewhere.

It is definetely a (big) part of the reason, but if it was the only one, things wouldn't be in a similarly terrible situation in other countries. Take the UK as an example which has a single-payer system, and morale is overall really low, too, and nursing isn't an enticing career. (On a side-note, the BBC show "This is going to hurt" is quite good and on topic) Apart from administrators and insurers, I think a large…

+1 very similar story in Canada.

It blows my mind that super long shifts are the norm for a job that's generally more exerting/stressful than your average 9-5. But it's a viscious cycle now because of the shortages of qualified staff.

Here in BC we have a full on crisis where family doctors are retiring at an alarming rate and not being replaced.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#387

Post by vlunkr » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 5:31 PM UTC

I'd like to know what "considering leaving" means in this study. I consider leaving my profession every time a React hook misbehaves and locks up my browser, but I'm not actually going to leave. 90% seems way too high to be people who are actively wanting to leave.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#388

Post by literallyWTF » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 5:32 PM UTC

xyzzyz wrote: post #64

mfer wrote: post #46

I've spent a fair amount of time talking with nurses about the problems. I'm related to a bunch of people who are nurses across disciplines (ER, ICU, med/surg, etc). It's been enlightening hearing them talk about the problems... 1. Many new nurses make the same or more and long time nurses. It's frustrating when the nurse in charge with the most experience is making less than new nurses. Some hospitals are even tryin…

> 2. Patients in COVID have become downright mean. Add this to the problems nurses have management and doctors (who are often rude and arrogant) and it's a poor culture. The quality of the environment, from a mental health standpoint, is on the decline. Mean customers, and rude coworkers? I sympathize, but this is a reality in a lot of industries. I have no reason to believe that healthcare here is worse than average…

Yeah I don’t know about that bud. Try telling the spouse of a dying person that their half baked ideas they read on Facebook aren’t valid and tell me their meltdowns are comparable to working retail.

All jobs suck donkey dick, but jobs directly dealing with sick and dying people are on a different level.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#389

Post by Melatonic » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 5:32 PM UTC

93po wrote: post #339

pc86 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance is the only industry where they agree to pay for something (in this case, "medical care"), but then after service has been rendered can decide to pay less, or not pay at all, or stop paying that provider altogether, etc. This combined with hospitals being run by non-physicians*, and people thinking being able to Google and read WebMD qualifies them to argue with their doctor about treatment plans**, healthc…

> people thinking being able to Google and read WebMD qualifies them to argue with their doctor about treatment plans In my experience, I have had: 1. Doctors that know nothing about a really basic ailment and not have any meaningful guidance or treatment to suggest 2. Doctors that Google something literally in front of me, things that I have already Googled myself, and draw the wrong conclusion because they're looki…

I felt the same way until I started being more active in choosing quality doctors. Doctors are no different than any other profession - there are the ones at the bottom of their league that are just going through the motions and there are the superstars working for some of the best institutions in the world. The key I have found is to specifically look for doctors that are either actively involved in academic research pertaining to your ailment or are working at quality institutions that are engaging in research that is at least tangentially related to your issue.

Keep in mind they also have to do a stupid amount of paperwork these days for every patient and the place they work for may be overscheduling the crap out of them - generally (unfortunately) I always consider my first appointment to be sort of a wash due to this and assume I am not going to really get anywhere until the second time I see them.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#390

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 5:33 PM UTC

fitba72 wrote: post #108

In my experience, most nurses come in, socialise and cheer you up, take your blood pressure and temperature with automated devices, that one can buy for home use, and give you medicines that a doctor has prescribed (someone can also can do at home if they are feeling up to it). This is a wonderful profession and they should be highly paid but do they really need a bachelor's degree or master's degree to do this job?…

[deleted]