Why is it hard to buy things that work well? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#381

Post by doelie_ » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 12:51 PM UTC

jseliger wrote: post #140

Strilanc wrote: post #88

It's pretty depressing how many of the comments are purely answering the title and not discussing the content of the article. In particular, the comments seem mostly focused on consumer product build quality whereas the article is more focused on e.g. businesses trying to outsource something (like same day delivery) and getting a worse result even when they pay more than doing it internally. And the cultural obstacle…

It's like most people don't read carefully or for comprehension: https://jakeseliger.com/2022/01/31/most-people-dont-read-car... (A few of the replies I've gotten purely answered the title and didn't discuss the content.)

> ... they think I’m going to tell them the secret, and instead I tell them there is no real secret, just execution and practice.

Ha!

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#382

Post by bgentry » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 1:05 PM UTC

ncmncm wrote: post #232

et-al wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I beg to differ, many of these large household companies are shells of their former selves as they've been bought, bankrupted, and traded around. What's left is just a name with no solid product line backing it anymore. E.g. Sunbeam was a solid household appliance name, and now it's a crap. Same with Braun. The easy industrial design exercise seems to be luxurious looking materials paired with cheap electronics. Amaz…

I don't even know how I would identify a good toaster to buy, nowadays. Electric kettles are a problem, too.

After purchasing the top two Wirecutter picks for electric kettles (Cuisinart and some gooseneck kettle) both died within a year. The gooseneck one was rusted on arrival, clearly awful build quality.

I decided to try paying much more for a Fellow Stagg EKG, and it was a great decision. It’s lasted over 3 years and has been an absolute joy to use compared to the prior mass market garbage.

I often wish for a Wirecutter-like site that prioritizes quality and especially longevity above all else. Wirecutter always focused too much on cost, and even their “upgrade picks” tend to suffer awful quality issues. For years their top blender pick was an Oster that had hundreds of angry reviews about dying within months. Wirecutter ignored the feedback for years despite so many people streaming into their own comments section to vent about it.

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#383

Post by pixl97 » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 1:05 PM UTC

spacebanana7 wrote: post #330

analog31 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

House foundations, light switches, and water delivery, along with the professions that install them, are all regulated and licensed. There is somewhat of a trend for the quality of those things to have regional variation, e.g., lower quality in places that have historically had weak code enforcement and weak unions. And yes, the regulation probably did make those things more expensive.

The filesystems example given by OP is an interesting counterpoint - Linux filesystems are the opposite of regulated, regionally varied, and expensive.

File systems are very expensive. Not up front, but instead on failure. Bad/cheap file systems don't last long.

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#384

Post by ksec » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 1:06 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #277

yrral wrote: post #16

I think it's that you don't notice things that work well. House foundations, light switches, filesystems, silicon manufacturing, water delivery, grocery store logistics, etc etc etc. These are all things that most people never notice because they just work. It doesn't even occur to people day-to-day that these things can fail.

These are all things that most people never notice because they just work. Taking the example of grocery store logistics, the number of times products are unavailable in my local store makes me thing that's a thing that doesn't "just work". It's something that breaks down regularly, and possibly has lots of people working hard to keep it from breaking even more often. The same is true for lots of things. Stuff like w…

As I wrote recently, [1]

> And it also pretty much sums up how most people in Tech have minimal understanding of Supply Chains and logistics works. Even distribution alone, within a single country ( ignoring the cross border logistics ) is complex enough.

Let me tell you supply chain and product availability in store ( especially grocery ) is still an unsolved problem. For a lot of different reasons and market dynamics. But mostly because grocery stores also have their own brand which compete with other products, and sharing sales data for better forecast is still a big no no. Compare to let say Smartphone, your average retail store will have zero chance completing with Apple or Samsung. So every time an iPhone is sold Apple knew instantly and can better manage their supply chain. Both domestic and international.

If we didn't had COVID and Chip Shortage, most of the world still doesn't give any credit or importance to Supply Chain management. Even though it is the basic fabric of our society. And that is speaking with experience working with Fortune Global 500.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30662680

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#385

Post by alistairSH » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 1:08 PM UTC

PinguTS wrote: post #313

dotancohen wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I updated the post. I had no idea that oil changes are now once every two years. On the wife's Subaru I still change the oil every six months, and I remember when the standard was actually every three months. She puts about 10 km on the car during those six months, we live in a hilltop village half an hour drive from a city.

What? Oil change every three month? WTF is wrong with the US industry? The very same cars in Europe will have an oil change every 2 years or so. My Volvo S60 Model 2000 has an oil change every 3 years. There must be something that you get sold on by marketing that is so wrong. BTW. Also a Tesla has oil in their gearbox, even if it is just a single gear integrated into the single unit combined with motor and inverter.…

Both my cars (late model, US spec, Honda and BMW) have oil change intervals "as indicated" OR every year, whichever is shorter.

The "as indicated" ends up being around 8-10k miles in practice, with start/stop cycles, short trips, and other factors swinging it higher/lower.

These days, we average <4k miles year per car, so use the annual interval.

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#386

Post by Tor3 » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 1:10 PM UTC

kidsil wrote: post #359

angarg12 wrote: post #107

I just moved to the USA from the UK (having lived in Germany before) and the quality of the services I'm experiencing here is appalling. To get concrete, we submitted an application for an apartment let. After not hearing back for 4 days we reached out and it looks like somehow they misplaced our application. By then the unit we wanted was gone so they asked us to pay a holding fee to ensure they would keep another u…

Having lived in Germany, I must say the quality of customer service there is the worst I have ever seen. + A fridge I purchased was delivered with a 2 weeks delay, at 10:30PM (!!) on a Saturday (only because I kept calling every other day). + I've ordered a new broadband connection for an apartment I was renting. After several months (!) of waiting and calls, I found out that the former tenant had unpaid bills with t…

The shop guy was right though, even if he expressed it bluntly. How could anyone come up with a useful answer to that question? It's actually worse than the headache question. And yes there's not much of beating around the bush in Germany, which can be somewhat shocking to those not used to it.

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#387

Post by jeffreygoesto » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 1:12 PM UTC

PinguTS wrote: post #310

dijit wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is this not the very definition of survivorship bias though? I have things from the 80s that, obviously, have lasted a long time. But I have owned things from that era that have failed and been forgotten about. Incidentally I bought some boots this year that are expected to last (at a minimum) 10 years, and I suspect they would, but I can't know that until 10 years from now. Heirloom quality is probably still a thing…

The above author mentions that these machines are from Eastern Germany. As I am from Eastern Germany myself, I can tell you that we had regulations in place, that machines had to last and had to be repairable. Those regulations came into place, because we had heavily resource problems. Funfact: Those type of regulations are heavily discussed even these times again, when I look at EU right to be repair, or the discuss…

Maybe a good move, as we will be facing resource problems sooner than we like?

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#388

Post by jeffreygoesto » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 1:14 PM UTC

Tor3 wrote: post #379

andi999 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically you shd buy Miele then.

I replaced my 21 year old Miele washing machine recently. The solenoid-driven water intake valve broke. It wasn't a part of the machine itself, it was on the water intake tube. But the replacement part was nearly half the price of the brand new replacement Miele washing machine I ended up buying instead. The new one is slightly larger and has higher capacity, and doesn't suffer from a little design problem the origin…

Ha. I just recently cleaned all hoses of our 10 year old one (all were quite ok to reach) and hope to have it another 10 years.

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#389

Post by ksec » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 1:17 PM UTC

Double_a_92 wrote: post #325

bjarneh wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not because they are women though, but because they had trouble finding work somewhere else Because they were women?

Originally yes, of course. But that's not the fault of the person that actually hires them. If you are the only company that hires everyone without any discrimination, you just have a bigger supply of people.

This argument is not going to end well on HN.

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#390

Post by WrtCdEvrydy » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 1:22 PM UTC

bgentry wrote: post #382

ncmncm wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even know how I would identify a good toaster to buy, nowadays. Electric kettles are a problem, too.

After purchasing the top two Wirecutter picks for electric kettles (Cuisinart and some gooseneck kettle) both died within a year. The gooseneck one was rusted on arrival, clearly awful build quality. I decided to try paying much more for a Fellow Stagg EKG, and it was a great decision. It’s lasted over 3 years and has been an absolute joy to use compared to the prior mass market garbage. I often wish for a Wirecutter…

Honestly, I had spent 20 years in the US and we consistently bought the cheapest appliances ever.

When I bought my house I finally said "screw it, let's see what decent appliances look like".

Japanese rice cooker set me back $95 and I thought I would never hear the end of it, and after 4 years, it had already paid itself off (we were doing $14 rice cookers every 6 months). Air fryer was $70 but the previous $40 only lasted 13 months. Basic coffee maker was like $60 but made non-burnt coffee. A little combo oven/toaster is what I ended up on since we had one in the last apartment since we never used a full oven.

The ones that are honestly pretty difficult to find were dishwasher but one of our friends suggested bosch because we wanted a quiet appliance.