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Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

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Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#381

Post by tim333 »

warner_of_doom wrote: post #239
jazzyjackson wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with Chomsky on a lot of things, don’t think I need to watch CNN or read the New York Times to take Ukraine’s side on this one. The international condemnation and lock step sanctions, is that the media’s doing? Or is it the consequence of Russia being the aggressor? I agree with my sibling, opinions tend to stiffen up when war breaks out, with or without the radio.

Have you looked into what started this crisis in 2014?

Seems to be mostly the people of Ukraine being pissed off with their government going by the Wikipedia write up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#382

Post by tim333 »

cpleppert wrote: post #323
zozbot234 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about this archaic, old-fashioned "power politics" is that it's self-defeating in the age of late-stage modernity. You want to talk about power? China has certainly gained plenty of real-world power since the days of Mao Zedong. Japan has power. South Korea has power. But the thing is that, invariably, they did not gain that power by playing zero-sum "power politics" games, but rather as a side-effect of br…

>>You want to talk about power? China has certainly gained plenty of real-world power since the days of Mao Zedong. From the perspective of power maximizing their willingness to go to war is puzzling. But most research suggests states are not power maximizing but rather security maximizing. States don't consider their military potential in a vacuum but rather relative to other states that could disrupt their security…

>Russia the state will be more secure with Ukraine destroyed.

I don't get that. How does having a democratic neighbour like say Estonia, or a democratic Ukraine, make Russia insecure? No one's going to go invading them with them having the world's largest nuke stockpile and people were happy trading.

Now Putin personally, I can see how he might have issues.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#383

Post by warner_of_doom »

tim333 wrote: post #376
warner_of_doom wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What it doesn't have is respect for the right of self-determination. Did the US have any respect for self-determination in the 2014 putsch it backed in Ukraine?

Well yeah, it backed the people over Russia in Euromaidan. That was kind of the point of the thing.

LOL. OMG. Please look more closely into it. It was undemocratic by a long shot.

https://mate.substack.com/p/by-using-ukraine-to-fight-russia...

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#384

Post by warner_of_doom »

tim333 wrote: post #379
warner_of_doom wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/congress-has-remo... Zelenskyy is corrupt as they get. Don't buy the SM propaganda.

Your article seems to be "Congress Has Removed a Ban on Funding Neo-Nazis" and not much about Zelensky being corrupt.

This is just the tip of the iceberg:

* https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/congress-has-remo...

* https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/10/4/pandora-papers-ukra...

* https://www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-r...

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsh9V8UxenI

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK93aawlLKg

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#385

Post by warner_of_doom »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #373
warner_of_doom wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just the tip of the iceberg: * https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/congress-has-remo... * https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/10/4/pandora-papers-ukra... * https://www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-r... * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsh9V8UxenI * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK93aawlLKg I recommend you look into these authors/commentators/analysts: * John Mearsheimer * Noam Chom…

Are you replying to me or just spamming links? I watched the fox news clip with the colonel and find it frankly offensive. All Putin wants is a nuetral Ukraine, Zelensky should just hand over all his weapons? Tell me, do you believe Ukrainians preferred the government they deposed in 2014 ? That would see them never joining EU, never joining a defence pact to protect from Russian invasion? I see people fighting for t…

Do you realize just how fundamentally undemocratic and disenfranchising the 2014 putsch was in the short and long term?

https://mate.substack.com/p/by-using-ukraine-to-fight-russia...

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#386

Post by tim333 »

thraneh wrote: post #4

A lot of current news feels very biased, even from sources I previously found unbiased. Fortunately I was recently shared a link to John Mearsheimers 2015 YT video where he very clearly explains what has led to the current situation. In that light I now feel it's a lot easier to filter the news.

Rather than filtering from one perspective like Mearsheimers I find it interesting to see what both sides argue. But from the Russian side you get stuff like

>Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov set out Russia’s objectives in the Eastern European nation.

>“After the 2014 coup d’état, Ukraine has become influenced by Nazi ideology. We want to free her from this ideology,” he claimed.

Which doesn't really make sense with a democratically elected jewish former comedian being president. (thats from https://www.rt.com/russia/551294-kremlin-goal-ukraine-offens...)

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#387

Post by warner_of_doom »

KptMarchewa wrote: post #266
Grustaf wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The propaganda onslaught is unparalleled. Ukraine is painted as heaven on Earth, a beacon of democracy. McFaul even suggested that Putin essentially "hated Ukraine because it was free". In reality Ukraine is even more corrupt than Russia, their economy is in terrible shape, despite having more natural resources than most, and a diligent educated population. GDP per capita is a third of Russia's, lower than Belarus! T…

Ukraine is a free country, not Russian vassal state only for 8 years, during which of has been sabotaged by Russia by the war in Donbass.

https://mate.substack.com/p/by-using-ukraine-to-fight-russia...

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#388

Post by warner_of_doom »

tim333 wrote: post #381
warner_of_doom wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you looked into what started this crisis in 2014?

Seems to be mostly the people of Ukraine being pissed off with their government going by the Wikipedia write up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

https://mate.substack.com/p/by-using-ukraine-to-fight-russia...

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#389

Post by warner_of_doom »

KptMarchewa wrote: post #268
bllguo wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you not understand how pissing Russia off leads to sacrificing Ukrainian lives, or are you choosing not to?

No. Letting Russia do with foreign democracies leads to war like this. Appeasing dictators doesn't work.

Ukraine is far from a democracy. Far from it. Look deeper than this. This isn't a Chamberlain moment.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#390

Post by warner_of_doom »

postingawayonhn wrote: post #257
mindslight wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no fan of the USian empire, but there is a categorical difference between playing the propaganda / political puppet game to affect a democratic process, and open war against another sovereign country because you don't like the result. All this talk of Russia getting upset that "its" sphere of influence would rather look westward is completely writing off the agency of individual countries that haven't been part o…

> All this talk of Russia getting upset that "its" sphere of influence would rather look westward is completely writing off the agency of individual countries that haven't been part of the USSR for over a generation. Exactly. Russia has no inherent right to a sphere of influence. If it wants the support of its neighbours it will have to work hard to win that support.

Yes, I agree. Russia doesn't have an inherent right to a sphere of influence. But, it is also a principle in international relations that one nation-state should not increase its security at the expense of another. This situation is reminiscent of the Cuban Missile Crisis.
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