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Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

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Re: Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

#381

Post by HeavyStorm »

jamal-kumar wrote: post #281
johnnyanmac wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically, Epic's aquisitions are given freedom to do whatever they were doing beforehand, so I wouldn't be worried. Quixel now just gives out tons of free materials and assets, Sketchfab is untouched, Artstation forums don't behave any differently, Hypersense's tech was likely leveraged and used in Metahuman. People concerned over the "Exclusivity deals" on the game store end aren't looking at the "Developer" acq…

It's a company that's been successful, while also mired in a variety of legal problems and scandals, often related to how their games are so deliberately addictive.... I don't doubt what you say about their good intentions, I just honestly worry more about any fallout from that kind of business practice leading to an acquisition.

Never heard of legal Epic having legal problems because of addictive games. Can you elaborate?

Re: Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

#382

Post by ehnto »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #226
zippergz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Nothing will change in the short term" is the story of every acquisition, almost all of which end up with major changes for the worse at some point. (So yes, I agree with you.)

Historically, Epic's aquisitions are given freedom to do whatever they were doing beforehand, so I wouldn't be worried. Quixel now just gives out tons of free materials and assets, Sketchfab is untouched, Artstation forums don't behave any differently, Hypersense's tech was likely leveraged and used in Metahuman. People concerned over the "Exclusivity deals" on the game store end aren't looking at the "Developer" acq…

But being a market, Bandcamp's user's are actually artists and listeners, so Bandcamp having freedom to do what they want doesn't mean they can suddenly start giving all their music out for free, unless they change to a Spotify style model of listens = payout.

I wouldn't be surprised if the acquisition is to provide royalty free music to the games industry via Unreal Engine, as was the case for Quixel, but none of this is really good news for artists trying to make money unless Bandcamp plans to pay the artists out of their own pocket for a royalty free side.

All of that is speculation of course, we'll see where it goes. It's just a weird acquisition if it's not for integration I feel.

Re: Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

#383

Post by joveian »

susodapop wrote: post #2

This seems like an odd move for a gaming company. But I wonder about its implication for streamers who deal with DMCA takedowns for playing copyrighted music. Perhaps a scheme where partnered streamers are granted limited license to play music from across Bandcamp while they stream games from the Epic Store.

Bandcamp is just a store, they don't own rights to do anything other than sell music.

Re: Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

#384

Post by newobj »

Wow. Did not see that coming. I love Bandcamp, tho strangely stagnant as a product, but I loved its chill communal vibe and lack of tryhard tech for techs sake.

Wonder what the future holds with this acquisition.

Re: Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

#385

Post by ehnto »

siver_john wrote: post #22

This feels like a major blow, as someone who just semi recently (probably around pandemic start) started getting into purchasing flac music from indie artists, Bandcamp was a great source of music. I understand nothing will change in the short term, but long term I am very concerned. Especially as streaming becomes more dominant and companies are less willing to provide flac based music and physical discs (where I ca…

I'm not sure about always having Flacs, but a lot of "DJ" specific music platforms like Beatport have the ability to very easily download your catalog as files of various formats. The music curated there is of course leaning toward music you'd use as a DJ but it's pretty broad still.

Re: Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

#386

Post by ehnto »

chris11 wrote: post #228
BaseballPhysics wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And yet so many modern day startups have no viable exit strategy beyond acquisition Bandcamp was already profitable and has been for years. The pandemic dramatically increased their sales. They were doing fine. Why did they need an exit ? That is the real flaw of SV thinking: that simply being a profitable, going concern is somehow inadequate. The result is monopoly accretion as small companies are repeatedly swall…

Did bandcamp raise a lot of money from venture capital? The last round listed on crunchbase was a series A in 2010. It looks like management were fine running it more like a lifestyle business.

> more like a lifestyle business. reply

Bandcamp is 100% a bonafide operating business. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but perhaps you're seeing that they were just trying to run "Business as usual" and equating that to a lifestyle business as they weren't chasing growth.

Re: Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

#387

Post by joveian »

prepend wrote: post #33
hemloc_io wrote: post #10

Here's a thought. Maybe Epic's strategy is to fight Apple/Steam (Marketplace monopolies more generally)? They're already fighting Apple/Steam w/ gaming, maybe they're looking to have a music store already. I think undercutting fees charged by either could be a big win in their eyes.

I use all three and Epic is by far the worse software. Their platform requires root access on machines. It starts up when I don’t want it. It acts like malware. It also pegs my cpu at 100% at unpredictable times and download lots of data. It’s good that someone is fighting Apple and Steam, but I wish some better company would enter the fight. As it is now, I’d be sad if Epic won.

GOG is much better when it comes to games, although there are a very small number with issues (there is one they sell that is effectively only multiplayer and won't run without anti-cheat software installed, also GWENT is an online microtransaction thingy but there since it is made by CDPR). Almost everything works completely offline. The website isn't perfect but not that bad (quite a bit better than Bandcamp) and you can download from the website or use a client.

Re: Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

#388

Post by johnnyanmac »

ehnto wrote: post #382
johnnyanmac wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically, Epic's aquisitions are given freedom to do whatever they were doing beforehand, so I wouldn't be worried. Quixel now just gives out tons of free materials and assets, Sketchfab is untouched, Artstation forums don't behave any differently, Hypersense's tech was likely leveraged and used in Metahuman. People concerned over the "Exclusivity deals" on the game store end aren't looking at the "Developer" acq…

But being a market, Bandcamp's user's are actually artists and listeners, so Bandcamp having freedom to do what they want doesn't mean they can suddenly start giving all their music out for free, unless they change to a Spotify style model of listens = payout. I wouldn't be surprised if the acquisition is to provide royalty free music to the games industry via Unreal Engine, as was the case for Quixel, but none of th…

"none of this is really good news for artists trying to make money unless Bandcamp plans to pay the artists out of their own pocket for a royalty free side."

To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if that's Epic's endgoal. But the music industry is a gargantuan behemoth with paper thin profit margins, and Epic is already struggling enough battling the mobile market (a much more lucrative market where the fight makes sense).

I can't see any significant push like that happening for a decade+. This and the harmonix aquisition are probably just the foot in the door needed for those plans should they want to push one day.

Re: Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

#389

Post by kregasaurusrex »

Ruthalas wrote: post #304
kregasaurusrex wrote: post #72

When shopping for content around didgital platforms, the #1 decision that I take into account is how much of my purchase price actually goes back to the creator. Bandcamp seems to give the best cut for music, aside from directly purchasing from an artist's website, and Epic's acquisition might end up being a net positive for getting new users & overall growth. Personally I think it's a good fit and look forward to th…

Can you elaborate on what makes it a good fit? I'm curious what your thought is. I would have, at face value, considered the acquisition a bit odd given Epic's primary product.

It's boilerplate stuff, but my only experience with Bandcamp is buying a couple FLAC quality albums from artists that are too small to be signed onto a structured record label, or don't want to have additional middlemen between them and their fans. Was thinking something akin to Patreon with a well-functioning desktop app that goes beyond only having music offerings, like live shows or additional interviews with the band. Though other comments saying artists may need to have an exclusivity agreement in place to get this revenue sharing arrangement may be valid, the overhead of having to go through the traditional record label/publisher model is essentially rent seeking with providing no additional value.

Re: Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

#390

Post by HeavyStorm »

smileybarry wrote: post #326
stonith wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> look at what happened to PUBG when they used Epic's engine They made a lot of money. > it only buys popular software, because it's goal is getting more people locked into it's walled garden Epic store. The rev stream is royalties from engine use since the free tiers are locked to UE, not EGS.

>> look at what happened to PUBG when they used Epic's engine > They made a lot of money. They reportedly worked with Epic Games on technical support for PUBG features, and Epic Games may've ended up using some of them in their own Battle Royale mode: > Notably, Epic Games updated their in-development title Fortnite, a sandbox-based survival game that included the ability to construct fortifications, to include a bat…

Saying someone copied your work and broke the law doesn't mean that that they did. That's why we have tribunals.

Personally, I'm all against what they did with Fortnite and PUBG - they didn't broke any laws, but the surely reworked Fortnite into PUBG,instead of creating their own thing (it is now). But that's a long shot from saying they committed a crime or that their acquisitions turn up bad.

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