Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination • Hacker News Board

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#381

Post by DocTomoe » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:47 PM UTC

lelanthran wrote: post #300

DocTomoe wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what are they going to do if the target demographic (in this case Asians) start their own merit-based and academic-based colleges and universities? I would expect setting up Asian-American universities in which non-Asians need not apply to be highly illegal due to the Civil Rights Act.

> I would expect setting up Asian-American universities in which non-Asians need not apply to be highly illegal due to the Civil Rights Act. Who said anything about non-Asians? I said "merit-based" and "academic-based". Is it inconceivable that a university that accepts only on academic performance and focuses only on academic performance will end up disproportionally Asian? [EDIT: Actually, they can make it so that…

Well, if you first racially discriminate against a subset of the public, then propose they can set up their own structures at great expense (which only will become similarly prestigious after decades if not centuries, even if they somehow manage to churn out nobel prize winners and presidents almost immediately), it may be a tall order to also demand they be "racially fair".

At the same time you will push out Asian kids from regular Ivy-League school admission processes, after all "they can go to that Asian school".

If you promote the parallel polis, you will get more segregation, not less. That's the very reason you create a parallel polis.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#382

Post by cutemonster » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:48 PM UTC

abhink wrote: post #312

cutemonster wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to get admission in the top college Could this indicate that there're many bright people in India, who are mostly self taught, because they belonged to the "wrong" group and so couldn't study at University (or at least not the one they wanted) ? Whilst, if someone has studied at a top university, it doesn't mean that much?

This is correct to some extant, and not just for getting education. As an example, in many competitive exams conducted by universities etc. to select students, the selection cutoff marks clearly show this pattern of intentional discriminatory admittance. For someone belonging to "general" category, anyone designated to an upper caste, the cutoffs percentage for selection could be as high as 97-99%. For "reserved" cat…

Thanks! I hope they won't start using these ways of hiring people, to find airplane pilots. Negative marks in the exams

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#383

Post by raxxorrax » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:49 PM UTC

actuator wrote: post #202

ipnon wrote: post #100

It's discrimination any way you slice it. You can't lower the bar for one person without raising it for another so long as the class sizes remain the same. If elite universities are about providing education (a valid point of critical contention), then systematically barring Asians from entry is the same class of injustice litigated in Brown v. Board of Education. It's not enough to say you can learn calculus just as…

This is what affirmative action will look like. If you want to see the context of such an action happening somewhere for long time, take the example of India. There it is much more explicit and written in the law. For some subjects, the criteria it takes for one cohort to get admission in the top college is the same one in which the other cohort will not even get admission in any college in the top 20. You can see th…

It is simply a bad mechanism and argument to put injustices of the past on the shoulders of new generations, especially with goals defined in such a blurry manner. On the contrary, the best remedy is to treat people as equals.

That isn't unpractical realism, nothing else is required. Of course some will have a huge head start and culture towards education is a very important factor. But you can shelve the false justice which is just racism with another motivation.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#384

Post by zozbot234 » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:50 PM UTC

Miner49er wrote: post #345

sokoloff wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really can’t wrap my head around an argument that amounts to “that person only succeeded on the test because they put in the time and effort to learn the material and their hard work is the primary thing that separated their performance from this other person; if that other person would have tried, they could have done just as well; that’s not a meritocracy!”

It's pretty simple. A lot of kids don't have an opportunity to put in the time and effort. Some of them still do well despite this, and that shows they have great potential if given the opportunity. Taking life challenges and starting points into account is more of a meritocracy, because you are accounting for the difficulty they had to get to where they are. For example, say you have two kids with the same high SAT…

What do you mean by merit? Meritocracy is not about some kind of moral desert; it's a really, really inconvenient practice we put up with nonetheless (all those tests and credentials are no walk in the park!) because we think that higher-levels of responsibility (which are naturally well compensated) should be given to people with the most appropriate level of skills and competence, which are only developed via strenuous effort. One can say that the 2nd kid deserves to be helped just as much as anyone else in a similar social situation, but as a matter of fact they are surely not more competent.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#385

Post by chernevik » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:51 PM UTC

SyzygistSix wrote: post #330

ww520 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asians are way under represented in sport teams. Who will be held accountable?

They are trying to. Right now their kids supposedly spend all their time working on their GPA and SAT scores.

And others aren't. And it shows.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#386

Post by jpgvm » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:51 PM UTC

Lascaille wrote: post #241

jpgvm wrote: post #209

So they should. Anything other than an objective standardized test is just asking for bias. Australia gets by just fine with standardized testing only, don't see why America can't as well. If you make the cut then you can qualify for scholarships if you are disadvantaged because of means, etc. To be fair though Australia is overall more equal in terms of schooling outcomes but to pretend that it's a university/colleg…

>Australia gets by just fine with standardized testing only, don't see why America can't as well. Because when the results align along racial boundaries and votes (and therefore power) can be won by 'combating' that 'discrimination' policies follow accordingly.

What? If you think standardized testing is benefiting white/rich Australians you are horrendously mistaken.

Asian Australians disproportionally destroy the affluent white Australian population on standardized tests as they fucking should because they prepare more and work harder.

As a result they have priority access to medicine and law degrees, again, as they fucking should.

If someone is going to work harder for something they simply deserve it, that is all there is to it.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#387

Post by Workaccount2 » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:51 PM UTC

quadrifoliate wrote: post #357

rayiner wrote: post #311

I attended TJ, back when it was about 30% Asian. I’ve always felt like the school should do more to get more underrepresented minorities. I’ve found the recent efforts very off-putting however. It’s based on a modern strain of social justice ideology that adopts some very ugly assumptions about Asians. I’m reminded of Alison Collins in San Francisco, who called Asians “house n—-ers” and said they use “white supremaci…

> It consisted of going to some Indian dude’s house for an hour every Saturday for a summer. If that’s a game changer what does that say about American K-8 math education? Ironically, this is scouting round a theory I have long espoused – the failure of American K-8 math education has nothing to do with teaching , and everything to do with culture . Sure, going to some Indian dude's house every Saturday for a summer…

Criticizing culture is off limits, so here we are...

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#388

Post by DeWilde » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:52 PM UTC

ransom1538 wrote: post #367

quadrifoliate wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It consisted of going to some Indian dude’s house for an hour every Saturday for a summer. If that’s a game changer what does that say about American K-8 math education? Ironically, this is scouting round a theory I have long espoused – the failure of American K-8 math education has nothing to do with teaching , and everything to do with culture . Sure, going to some Indian dude's house every Saturday for a summer…

I always wondered if these parents raising test ninjas are doing their kids favors. We have google now. I don't need to know the capital of Ukraine - I can just google it. STEM is great to study, but most of the academics in it after 8th grade are not particularity useful. I still haven't been asked to solve a differential equation at work. I have never been asked what school I went to during an interview (i wished t…

I don't think that it is waste. Learning to be test ninja means that you have to learn to concentrate and spend effort at a single task for a period of time over a period of time.

That skill you can later use to do any of the mentioned activities far more efficiently.

At least that is how is see. I thought myself to be a test ninja during high school and I still follow the same basic pattern when doing work related stuff or for hobbies.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#389

Post by SyzygistSix » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:53 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #366

SyzygistSix wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it seem like the US no longer has an issue when there's an entire class of people who are not being educated, has high crime, and ending in mass incarceration. I can accept that some people have an issue with current liberal ideas because they think they don't work. If so, what is going to work? Or is the current state inevitable in order to have the high-functioning economy that the US has? Certainly more H…

> there's an entire class of people who are not being educated, has high crime, and ending in mass incarceration. Men?

Definitely especially men, specifically poor men in urban and rural places. Obviously the relevant issues are not going to all be solved at Harvard. But the people at Harvard are more likely to be the ones tasked with solving it.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#390

Post by 3pt14159 » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:53 PM UTC

raxxorrax wrote: post #383

actuator wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what affirmative action will look like. If you want to see the context of such an action happening somewhere for long time, take the example of India. There it is much more explicit and written in the law. For some subjects, the criteria it takes for one cohort to get admission in the top college is the same one in which the other cohort will not even get admission in any college in the top 20. You can see th…

It is simply a bad mechanism and argument to put injustices of the past on the shoulders of new generations, especially with goals defined in such a blurry manner. On the contrary, the best remedy is to treat people as equals. That isn't unpractical realism, nothing else is required. Of course some will have a huge head start and culture towards education is a very important factor. But you can shelve the false justi…

The injustices of the present need to be solved still. In America the way schools are funded in many states is such an obvious shorthand for racist school funding there isn't a level playing field.