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Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

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Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#381

Post by ID1452319 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #371
ID1452319 wrote: post #367

Slightly off topic, but I have seen a number of comments mentioning "CV parsing". I implement HR technology for a living, which obviously includes recruitment solutions. I have never seen a company implement automated CV parsing, as in rejecting CVs which don't contain certain keywords. Does anyone have first hand experience of working for a company which does implement automated CV parsing?

Seems to be super common? https://www.jobscan.co/blog/fortune-500-use-applicant-tracki...

An Applicant Tracking System is just the industry term for recruitment software. Therefore, you'd expect every company to have one.

I can't see anything in that link that suggests those companies are doing automated CV parsing.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#382

Post by ajuc »

WalterBright wrote: post #226
notRobot wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people aren't native speakers. Do they really need to know how to spell perfectly to work for you?

That's why gawd invented spell checkers. Besides, I've noticed that ESL speakers make different kinds of mistakes than sloppy native speakers do.

> That's why gawd invented spell checkers.

All of the lines below have red squiggly lines under them in my browser's text area:

- Qt Quick

- Datalog

- Datomic

- TensorFlow

> I've noticed that ESL speakers make different kinds of mistakes than sloppy native speakers do.

I've never seen a non-native speaker writing "would of" or using "they're" instead of "their". On the other hand I can't count how many times I've skipped an article or used a wrong one somewhere (since my native language doesn't use them at all).

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#383

Post by chrisseaton »

ID1452319 wrote: post #381
chrisseaton wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to be super common? https://www.jobscan.co/blog/fortune-500-use-applicant-tracki...

An Applicant Tracking System is just the industry term for recruitment software. Therefore, you'd expect every company to have one. I can't see anything in that link that suggests those companies are doing automated CV parsing.

Says it all the way through?

> Some ATS, like Taleo, even automatically rank applicants by comparing the uploaded resume to the job description. This allows recruiters to cherry pick candidates at the top of the ranking.

Outside of tech jobs if you apply to a big-five or something they’re absolutely doing this.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#384

Post by skocznymroczny »

moralestapia wrote: post #91
jeroenhd wrote: post #42

In my opinion, there shouldn't be. Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. Reducing someone's life history to a list of educational institutions and employers feels robotic even for a software developer's mindset. I understand that there are real life problems because companies do use automated processing on applications, but that kind of behaviour shouldn't be en…

>Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. HR is looking for "node.js" but you wrote it like "nodejs"? Though luck pal, bye. HR wants a "computer scientist" but you have a degree in "computer science"? Same, automatically discarded. If anything, a st…

I was stumped for a while when HR asked me about my experience with "Microsoft Visual Studio technology" for a Python job.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#385

Post by dmurray »

berkes wrote: post #325
bruce511 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about communication, or spelling, or grammar, it's about attention to detail. I've seen my fair share of resumes and hired my fair share of people, and I've come to the conclusion that sloppy, error-ridden, CVs are a sign of a lack of attention to detail. Here's a candidate with all the time in the world, and huge motivation, and they still can't complete this task correctly. It's not a good look. I'm not sa…

Why can you assume a candidate has 'all the time in the world?'

A job hunt typically takes weeks or months of calendar time, and dozens of hours of clock time. So if a candidate has good management of his time and effort, he can budget one of those hours to improve the attention to detail of his CV.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#386

Post by freddie_mercury »

berkes wrote: post #330
freddie_mercury wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really a "universal format", though. That's an "English language format". Actually, it's an "American format" since I see it specifies "organization" instead of "organisation". Why should resumes in Vietnam or China be using English, after all.

Doesn't that hold true for any standard though? In HTTP we have Get, Put, Post, Delete, Patch or Options and not obtenir, mettre, poster, supprimer, corriger, options. Yet the French use the web all the time, as do Chinese or Maui. It would not be about how the fields are named, but about localised concepts. Maybe there are societies that have some educational concept which western Americans cannot fathom, but which…

That's fair point. But normal French people aren't interacting with HTTP directly in any meaningful way. (More snarkily: they're using browsers built by Americans to connect to webservers built by Americans.) But I imagine that 99% of people who use json-resume today are interacting directly with it.

So I suppose that parallel suggests it depends on whether there's a realistic expectation of WYSIWYG editors for any kind of universal resume format. Which I think seems incredibly unlikely.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#387

Post by julian_sark »

PakG1 wrote: post #259
jeroenhd wrote: post #42

In my opinion, there shouldn't be. Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. Reducing someone's life history to a list of educational institutions and employers feels robotic even for a software developer's mindset. I understand that there are real life problems because companies do use automated processing on applications, but that kind of behaviour shouldn't be en…

Whether or not it should happen doesn't answer the question of why it hasn't happened. The fact is that the very companies that do automated processing of applications probably would welcome resume standardization, so why didn't they do it yet? It's in their power to propose a standard, settle on it, and require it. I suspect the answer as to why it hasn't happened is simply because most laypeople applicants would fi…

> laypeople applicants would find it too difficult > to do something like LaTeX or whatever

Those people where a CV and certificates matter, they already construct a CV in the closed system of LinkedIn or Monster's websites. Nobody needs to use LaTeX, there will be websites where anyone can do it, if anything that's an additional business opportunity.

No, I suspect the actual reason is: Nobody will do it unless the big players (LinkedIn etc.) will adopt it. And the big players don't do it because interoperability, and a CV that can be migrated anywhere, isn't in their interests.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#388

Post by opk »

estaseuropano wrote: post #353

The EU has tried to put one in place, and it is used for all EU funding programmes and by a number of national and local administrations in Europe, so probably tens of millions used per year. Not sure I like the format but its good it stresses experience and narrative over just 'formal' data. And they have done it quite nicely that you can either download a template and work offline, or you can work in the browser an…

I always use the Europass format. For an IT sysadmin job, it's not like I'm trying to prove that I know how to use a basic word processor. Or demonstrate the type of artistic design skills that go into coming up with my own format. I like the fact that by using something standard, I'm less likely to be judged on stuff like choice of font etc. It tends to cover key details in a fairly terse format well which at least leaves scope for more wordy explanations in a cover letter. I find I don't end up needing to tweak the CV much when adapting it for different job applications while any cover letter does tend to then be fully one-off.

That said, my record in actually ever landing a new job is fairly woeful but that may be more down to being poor in interviews.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#389

Post by ID1452319 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #383
ID1452319 wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An Applicant Tracking System is just the industry term for recruitment software. Therefore, you'd expect every company to have one. I can't see anything in that link that suggests those companies are doing automated CV parsing.

Says it all the way through? > Some ATS, like Taleo, even automatically rank applicants by comparing the uploaded resume to the job description. This allows recruiters to cherry pick candidates at the top of the ranking. Outside of tech jobs if you apply to a big-five or something they’re absolutely doing this.

I agree that the tools provide that capability, but I have never seen them implemented anywhere, hence asking if anyone has first hand experience.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#390

Post by DarylZero »

bruce511 wrote: post #267
kortilla wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's what resumes used to be, after all -- a kind of a take-home test where you really do have enough time (and perfect knowledge) to get everything 100 percent right. The only thing this filters for is people who have been looking for a job for a long time and/or are people focused on presentation instead of content, good luck with that. We’ve hired incredible engineers across that have had typos and major resum…

It's not about communication, or spelling, or grammar, it's about attention to detail. I've seen my fair share of resumes and hired my fair share of people, and I've come to the conclusion that sloppy, error-ridden, CVs are a sign of a lack of attention to detail. Here's a candidate with all the time in the world, and huge motivation, and they still can't complete this task correctly. It's not a good look. I'm not sa…

The motivation might not be "huge" at all, considering you might not be expecting any response, might have done 10 of these in the last hour, pay may not even be acceptable, etc.
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