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How credit cards make money

bam.kalzumeus.com

381–390 of 445 posts

Re: How credit cards make money

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Is my comment unwelcome because you said something similar?

It is welcome, I had just assumed you had not read to the bottom of my comment.

And to clarify, my comment wasn't intended as a rebuttal of yours. Rather it was intended to be complementary, or at least adjunct.

Re: How credit cards make money

#382
post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why is electing in quotes?

Because US election system does not reflect the will of the population, or even the voting population. FPTP is a highly deficient system that results in the same two parties staying in power indefinitely, which is only marginally better than a single party state. So, I find it hard to blame the population for the politicians they elect in this case. US elections are a lot more constrained by the ruling class and the…

Okay - I'll be the one that asks. What does FPTP stand for?

Re: How credit cards make money

#383
post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to think this was a bad outcome? The ability of a business to steer customers away from a credit card that charges the business high fees?

It is a bad outcome. The high amex fees put up the price of coffee for all customers. Amex are making money from customers they don't even service. It's a scam and the business owner should encourage the customer to pay cash if possible.

I remember going to a restaurant in Belgium-Bruges(in 2015) that had the fees listed at every table. They were charging you the table cost + whatever fees were listed for your card. While I can't remember the fees I do remember that is was enough to make me decide I want to pay cash.

I don't know if it's legal or not to do that but I found it an interesting quirk of the times we're in (and maybe the owner was pissed off).

Re: How credit cards make money

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because US election system does not reflect the will of the population, or even the voting population. FPTP is a highly deficient system that results in the same two parties staying in power indefinitely, which is only marginally better than a single party state. So, I find it hard to blame the population for the politicians they elect in this case. US elections are a lot more constrained by the ruling class and the…

Okay - I'll be the one that asks. What does FPTP stand for?

As far as I know, it’s “first past the post” [0] isn’t it?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting

Re: How credit cards make money

#385
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that might be fun to cover: I got in a twitter discussion today about why Europeans don't use credit cards as much as people do in the US. Researching this question and related ones ("why are wire transfers free in Europe but not in the US") are basically impossible to Google, as similar but not actually good results ("the cheapest way to wire money to Europe") drown out any primary resources.

Semi-related: What happens with interchange and related fees, when an American credit card is used in Europe?

It does not directly answer your question, but many (most?) merchant agreements in EU have significantly higher fees for accepting non-EU cards. E.g. Stripe takes 1.4% vs 2.9% for EU vs non-EU (card-present EMV transactions are typically much lower cost, but that still shows the idea).

Re: How credit cards make money

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a bad outcome. The high amex fees put up the price of coffee for all customers. Amex are making money from customers they don't even service. It's a scam and the business owner should encourage the customer to pay cash if possible.

I remember going to a restaurant in Belgium-Bruges(in 2015) that had the fees listed at every table. They were charging you the table cost + whatever fees were listed for your card. While I can't remember the fees I do remember that is was enough to make me decide I want to pay cash. I don't know if it's legal or not to do that but I found it an interesting quirk of the times we're in (and maybe the owner was pissed…

Afaik it's not legal anymore to do this in Germany (and probably Belgium/EU?), or rather: It's illegal for the businesses to have different prices for different payment methods (a workaround are coupons for using certain payments, but probably only for special offers). As far as I remember PayPal was usually the most expensive payment method (compared to CC, bank transfer etc.).

Re: How credit cards make money

#387
post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to think this was a bad outcome? The ability of a business to steer customers away from a credit card that charges the business high fees?

It is a bad outcome. The high amex fees put up the price of coffee for all customers. Amex are making money from customers they don't even service. It's a scam and the business owner should encourage the customer to pay cash if possible.

Wife and I own a brick and mortar service based business with recurring revenue. Credit card customers get a 3% transaction fee added while ACH we swallow the 1% cost. I don't believe the terms of services says we can do that. I doubt Visa will send someone to investigate. If we didn't, we would need to increase prices for everyone.

(Our ACH used to be cheaper but Intuitwants to squeeze small business owners :https://quickbooks.intuit.com/learn-support/en-us/payments/a... )

Re: How credit cards make money

#388
post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a bad outcome. The high amex fees put up the price of coffee for all customers. Amex are making money from customers they don't even service. It's a scam and the business owner should encourage the customer to pay cash if possible.

Wife and I own a brick and mortar service based business with recurring revenue. Credit card customers get a 3% transaction fee added while ACH we swallow the 1% cost. I don't believe the terms of services says we can do that. I doubt Visa will send someone to investigate. If we didn't, we would need to increase prices for everyone. (Our ACH used to be cheaper but Intuitwants to squeeze small business owners : https:…

Interesting! Would it be possible for you to not accept credit card but accept ACH?

Re: How credit cards make money

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has nothing to do with credit cards and everything to do with the kind of people ruling this country, and the kind of systems we have to keep "electing" them. If that case wasn't about AmEx, it would have been about some other random oligopolist, with the same outcome.

It's at the point where I'm genuinely surprised to legislation that provides benefits to the consumer. On the rare occasions that it does appear, the first thing I wonder is "what's the angle".

I guess it has to be both unprofitable and universally agreed upon

Re: How credit cards make money

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this pattern almost weekly with engineers (both online and offline). The hubris is fascinating . (Full disclosure: I was often guilty of this myself for the first decade-plus of my career.)

The current discussions around Covid and vaccines made me realise I am continually guilty of this hubris. I've heard people say before "whenever I see a discussion on a subject I am an expert on, HN is full of ignorant commenters", but I feel it far more viscerally now. The first stage was: these anti-vaxxers don't have a degree in immunology, what makes them qualified to even attempt to interpret scientific papers o…

But you have expertise in at least one field, which confers to you an improved ability (relative to someone who is expert at nothing) to recognize expertise vs ignorance. This is, as I understand it, a fairly straightforward conclusion based on the Dunning-Kruger effect.
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