Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday • Hacker News Board

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#381

Post by void_mint » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 9:09 PM UTC

fleddr wrote: post #353

andrewzah wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How hard is it to not make inappropriate comments about someone or their body? It's -exceedingly- easy to not be a creepy dick to one's coworkers and fellow human beings. One only has to act like a robot if they have zero social awareness or tact.

I would agree that this is easy, but I did run into a weird edge case. First to be clear, I would never comment on anybody's body or clothes, especially not in the workplace. This is not to comply with some rule, I wouldn't have the urge to do that in the first place. It's weird and unneeded. Anyway, the edge case. My female coworker is very passionate about making custom dresses. One day, on the day before our count…

I think one of the main tenants of allyship (I'm comfortable having weirdos call me "woke" for using the word allyship) is being accepting when told you did something wrong, and working to cultivate relationships in which a person is able to _simply_ say "I didn't like that", to which that feedback is taken seriously and responsibly.

I mostly think the argument "Well men will just start treating women and minorities will start being treated like radio active objects" is cultivated and pushed forward by men that aren't willing to hear they did something wrong. Binary thinking is _the problem_. If you make a comment with good intent, but it was taken poorly, the fear is you'll be labeled as a bad person/sexist/whatever. In reality, if your intent is good, and your response to being told you did something wrong was "I'm sorry, I won't do that again", nothing else really has to happen.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#382

Post by void_mint » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 9:10 PM UTC

craftinator wrote: post #163

void_mint wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Harassment intentionally includes observers. If you do something to someone, and a third party observes it and is made uncomfortable, that is harassment in the workplace. To say "Guys are just ribbing eachother" ignores people that observe that behavior and find it uncomfortable/hostile/toxic. This is also an extremely generous description of what happened. Women were harassed, both sexually and not. Their pay was lo…

> It's also worth noting that the military is a toxic cesspit for sexual abuse. Comparing any sane workplace to the military is a joke. Nobody should want to be like the military, including the military. Can confirm true from experience. To be fair, the military (USMC experience only) is structured to intentionally harass all members below certain ranks continuously, with the idea being that it keeps them sharp and w…

> Sexual assault in the United States armed forces is an ongoing issue which has received extensive media coverage in the past. A 2012 Pentagon survey found that approximately 26,000 women and men were sexually assaulted that year; of those, only 3,374 cases were reported.[1] In 2013, a new Pentagon report found that 5,061 troops reported cases of assault. Some are optimistic that this increase in reports is indicative of victims "growing more comfortable in the system".[2] Of the reported cases, only 484 cases went to trial; 376 resulted in convictions.[3] Another investigation found that one in five women in the United States Air Force who were sexually assaulted by service members reported it, for one in 15 men.[4]

> A survey for the Department of Defense conducted in 2015 found that in the past year 52% of active service members who reported sexual assault had experienced retaliation in the form of professional, social, and administrative actions or punishments.[5] In addition to retaliation against soldiers remaining in active service, many former service members who reported sexual assaults were forced to leave after being discharged. Reasons for discharge included having a "personality disorder" or engaging in misconduct related to the sexual assault such as fraternization or (prior to the end of don't ask, don't tell) homosexuality, even if the homosexual conduct was non-consensual.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault_in_the_United_S...

I would say that the punishment seeming severe is mostly a display.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#383

Post by mensetmanusman » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 9:11 PM UTC

bennysomething wrote: post #357

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hire people you can work with. People who disagree with you and challenge your way of thinking are good to have around as a check on your biases. You don't have to like them.

I like lots of people I disagree with, why is not liking someone the key some problem? In fact I'm not sure anyone has defined the problem of with hiring people you like other than some unsubstantiated claim that we only like people of the same colour and background which in my experience is nonsense.

This. I love my disagreeable friends because having robust dialogue is fun for most of my ilk (although it is interesting that women have told us they (mistakenly) think that we are bitterly arguing, which makes them feel uncomfortable).

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#384

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 9:11 PM UTC

0x500x79 wrote: post #13

This seems to largely match a lot of the same things that happened with Riot Games over the last couple of years. I am hoping that these actions can help spread awareness of any issues that may be present at Blizzard and past, current, and future employees won't face the same issues. It is a long road to be traveled to get there. I hope that the current WFH situation doesn't detract from the walkout. A lot of the vis…

[deleted]

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#385

Post by puchatek » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

sillysaurusx wrote: post #171

madamelic wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, should've been more specific. It's not trash talk. I can handle trash talk. It's stuff like "Ah, a f_cking girl. Cool guys, now we are going to lose", before the round even starts, or "Get back to the kitchen, B_TCH" or just harassing me until I leave the game, either through team-killing or preventing me from playing. And if everyone is "behaving", I get treated differently in PUGs than just another team memb…

Just wanted to say, as a male, I had this exact experience. I was playing Pavlov VR using my wife's account. Steam profile avatars float next to people in that game, so people assumed I was female. I didn't have a mic, so I couldn't correct them. A group of people started repeatedly asking whether I was female, not for any purpose other than "hurr durr female," and then ultimately hunted me down. I forget exactly wha…

This should be a "challenge" (if those are still a thing), to be performed by anybody who believes that the issue doesn't exist. Create a female account for some online game and see how much fun you will be allowed to have with it.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#386

Post by Kiro » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

nineplay wrote: post #372

Kiro wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it discrimination if I own a company and only hire my friends who are into the same things as me? Serious question because I don't understand how that's different, if it is.

Are you hiring them because you know them and you trust them? That is not discrimination. Are you hiring them because you want to win the tech-company beach volleyball tournament? That's discrimination. You could probably get away with it. Would you feel good about yourself? Would you feel pissed if you found out that you didn't get a job you really wanted, only because another company was trying to fill out their ru…

Not really following your example, but let's say I hired them because I wanted to have someone to play multiplayer games with in the office. I give them money, and we both have a good time. The question is whether it's discrimination or not. To spice up the (highly hypothetical) example even more: I don't really need to hire anyone but I'm rich and want to be surrounded by friends so either they get hired to play games with me or the job isn't happening at all. No-one is missing out on the job... but could it still be discrimination?

Also, whether I trust them or not does not seem to matter according to your sibling comments.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#387

Post by dec0dedab0de » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 9:13 PM UTC

mhuffman wrote: post #328

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to make a point about "culture fit". "Culture fit" in a company typically comes down to "we like you" and the reason why people like other people is that they are like them. Similar age, background, whatever. There are plenty of people who like each other that have nothing in common. The idea that the reason people like people is because they are like them just feels ridiculous to me, but maybe I am an outlier…

>There are plenty of people who like each other that have nothing in common. The idea that the reason people like people is because they are like them just feels ridiculous to me, but maybe I am an outlier. Personally, the more someone is like me, the less I like them. Yes, you are an outlier. There is a very large amount of studies that show that people like people that are like them. [1] https://journals.sagepub.co…

Yes, you are an outlier.

Fair enough

There is a very large amount of studies that show that people like people that are like them.

The link you provide shows a coefficient of .47 for actual similarity, and .39 for perceived similarity. I'm not good at statistics, but that seems like a far cry from "the reason why people like other people is that they are like them." which is the line I was replying to. If I'm understanding it correctly it would be more accurate to say "people are somewhat more likely to like someone who is like them." If that's what was originally written, then I probably wouldn't have replied.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#388

Post by borodi » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

Beached wrote: post #319

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive me but that sounds... outdated? With the proliferation of e-sports and people making a living on twitch and all, it just seems a little unbelievable.

I'm not sure, the numbers on twitch don't even scratch the number of unique individuals who own consoles / buy games.

Atleast inside the mmo community streamers are very relevant. On the start of july a famous streamer started playing FFXIV and look at google trends https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=%2Fm%2F064ln09

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#389

Post by username90 » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

0x500x79 wrote: post #13

This seems to largely match a lot of the same things that happened with Riot Games over the last couple of years. I am hoping that these actions can help spread awareness of any issues that may be present at Blizzard and past, current, and future employees won't face the same issues. It is a long road to be traveled to get there. I hope that the current WFH situation doesn't detract from the walkout. A lot of the vis…

Activision Blizzard stock dropped 8% today, this is much larger than what happened at Riot.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#390

Post by RussianCow » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

Kiro wrote: post #342

nineplay wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to make a point about "culture fit" "culture fit" is one of the biggest causes of workplace discrimination and I still see it pushed in 'hiring training' as perfectly valid criteria. Things I've seen teams consider "culture" - will the candidate go to our weekly study session at the micro-brewery? - will the candidate stay after work to play multi-player games with us? - is the candidate entertained by all t…

Is it discrimination if I own a company and only hire my friends who are into the same things as me? Serious question because I don't understand how that's different, if it is.

If that implies that you're taking potential jobs away from people who would be better qualified, then absolutely. If the alternative is to just not hire anyone, then I don't see the problem—at that point you're basically paying friends to keep you company at your job.